I thought we could have a thread on boxing. Boxers seem to be jacks of all trades, unbelievable anaerobic and aerobic endurance, explosiveness throughout their entire body and in some cases tremedous strength to body weight ratios along with low body fat and great agility. Any insights as to how training would be? Any ideas on mike tysons training? Im thinkin hes natural becuase his training from what ive seen is consistent with high rep low weight weights, lots of jumping rope(which i agree with), long distance runs, and lots of skill work(which I agree with). I was thinking alternating days of intervals and high intensity skill work(heavy bag, sparring, heavy weights…) w/ lower intensity days(jumping rope, body weight exercises, shadow boxing, slip ball, speed bag,) would be a good approach, but w/ jumping rope everyday as a warm-up/conditioner(but more so on low intensity days) as it builds not only explosiveness and endurance, but great agility. thoughts?
Although I can’t say much for my boxing ability, the club I came from produced a world amateur champion and a few national (Canadian) champions.
A typical practice would start out with 10 minutes of light skipping or a jog, followed by stretches. We would then do a circuit with 3 minutes of alternating exercises such as pushups, burpies, crunches, situps, start jumps, jumping jacks, etc. Depending on the coaches mood, you would do each exercise for 10 to 30 seconds and then immediately switch. Then rest for one minute and go for however many rounds that part of the season required.
Then we did technical work such as combinations. Always at high speed and over and over and over and over again.
Next, we would hit the heavy bag for another circuit of either power hitting (hit the bag as hard as you can for 30 seconds, rest for 2 minutes) or speed hitting, hit the bag as many times as you can (quality shots) in 30 seconds with 2 minutes rest).
We would end with Sparring which varied from one minute rounds with alternating partners for 3 minutes (so your partner is always fresh), to straight up 2 minutes with one minute rest for as many rounds as necessary.
Then of course warm-down.
From what I have seen of Mike Tyson’s training, he did stuff like very short bursts (about 10 seconds) of ultra fast combinations (he looked like a piston in a truck engine), followed by lots of rest. This was when Cus was still training him. It was impressive to watch (on video) to say the least. He would go for longer slow jogs every morning. (From what I know).
Roy Jone’s Jr. Mad mid section work!!!
Herb,
Do you have any idea on how much mid-section work Roy Jones Jr. did reps wise?
Was it before or after (or both) work-outs?
Thanks.
RE Roy Jones’s mid section:
I have only seen training highlight video of him doing some ab work after one of his fights. He was on an decline bench doing twisty abs thingys, and he had a roller that you hold in your hands, and you extend your body straight and then roll it back in (I tried one of these and hurt my back so I ixnayed it from my program). No idea how many reps…but look at the guys mid section…crazy!!!
Herb,
Thanks for the info. And yes, he does have a rather strong looking mid-section.
Yeah, I saw that clip of Jones. He was doing russian twists with a light medicine ball.
On that Mike Tyson special on Fox, they showed him in the weight room. I forgot exactly what he was doing, but it was all bodybuilding stuff. Remember leg presses.
Delldell,
Was that Mike Pre Prison, or Post Prison? His body shape was very different after he came out of prison. He looked like an athlete/mangler/boxer going in, and came out looking like a body builder.
It was post prison. Actually it was pretty recent. The show came on last year so it was probably a year old footage. It was sort of funny because he was working out in a health club/fitness center. It was Beyond the Glory on Fox Sports. Don’t know if you get it in Canada, but they often replay them so you might catch it. It’s a series where they do 1 hr. bio’s like ESPN’s Sportscentury.
Numba56,
Depends on what your lookin for. Do you want to fight?? Or just look like a boxer. BIG difference. I competed and now coach at the amateur level. Most great fighters, except the fat guyz (excuse me heavyweights) don’t look like shit on the street, usually alittle on the thin side and you’d mistake them for distance runners. Its only at fight time (in the gym or at a meet) when the blood gets goin and its time to survive that they look pumped. Check out the pictures of Manny Paquiao (on his website) at his weight-in before he demolished Berrara. He looks like a dam refuge. Then look at him during the fight and he looks ripped and brutal. Its simply not in your best interest (i.e. survival) to have excess muscle. And if it comes down to a debate between muscle or speed, speed will kick your muscle bound ass (in the ring). The examples are endless: Ali-Foreman (Do you think Ali, if he ever did lift weights, could have benched half as much as Foreman??), Leonard-Hagler, Jones-Ruiz etc. etc…
For what its worth neither Mike Tyson or Roy Jones Jr. messed with weights before they were world champions. By that time the foundation was built. With Roy i think it was just something else to do to keep from getting bored. With Tyson it was something to do that was easier than real training but would make the mirror look like he’d really trained.
Guyz in strength&conditioning will bad mouth morning roadwork, but they don’t understand, cause they don’t fight. You don’t run hard, you run easy, i liken it to a daily Tempo. Hagler, Ali and Leonard all ran in combat boots nice and steady. Check out Ali’s footwear while doin roadwork in the Documentary Film “When We were Kings” Those ain’t Nike Air Lebron’s. More than anything else, roadwork is to keep the weight where it needs to be. You do your “speed” “intensity” work in the gym.
Last example, check out Mr. Hopkins, undisputed Middleweight bad ass at the unheard age of 39. His first professional fight, at the age of 25 was at lightheavyweight (he weighted in at 177) and he lost. Now to have had a trainer say yeah your ready and to have a promoter say yeah we’ll pay you to fight, he had to look pretty good at 177, but not championship shape. So he stepped it up and dropped 17 pounds to get down to middleweight. 14 years later at 6 feet tall he’s still coming in at 160(157 when he took Trinidad apart). Thats commitment. Larry Merchant put it best when he said “They say your speed and reflex’s go first, but i say the desire to train hard goes first and Bernard ain’t lost the desire to train hard.”
td
I heard Tyson lifted weights when he was 14 or 15, that he would bet people that he could bench 225 in the gym. Tyson also said that he would carry 100 pounds(not sure if I’m exactly right about this weight) up stairs.
Cus D’Amato, the man who took Tyson out of Reform school (age 14 or 15??) and essentially adopted him and taught him to how to be a boxer over the next 6 years in the Catskills was very much old school. There were no weights in his gym. Take a look at Mike’s fights between age’s 18 and 25, the speed was what separated him from other heavyweights. Lots of guys were, and are just as strong. But getting hit by a Cadillac goin 100 mph does alot more damage than one going 10 mph. After Cus died, Mike trained anyway he wanted, i mean the guyz had how many different trainers since??? But the foundation had been built during those critical late teen years. You can see the lack of proper training in his career the further you go timewise following Cus’s death. The Lewis fight sum’s it up. You see a flash of the old Tyson in the first round and then nothing. He came in at over 230 lbs, when Cus trained him he came in at 210-214. Sure you can say he’s older, but again i say don’t tell that to Bernard Hopkins. I love watching Mike’s early fights, he boxed. If he’d of hooked up with Bowie Fischer (Hopkins’s old school trainer (over 70 years old)) after Cus died he’d still be champ if he wanted.
td
I use to be a boxer, when i stopped doing track and feild athletics. I did it for about a year. THIS WAS When i was 15years old. But in the back of my mind i was always going to return to athletics.
I enjoyed boxing, and if gave me disaplin. At first i never use to spar, because i was weary. I just wanted to train. But then you get the people who think they are boss ,because they spar all the time, and don’t even learn nothing from it just throw punches like women (not tryin to offend).
I was much faster, and accurate than these people. So i ran rings around them, in are gym we never use to wear head guards and i did’nt even have a gum sheild.
We use to get put in with people, 2stones heavier than us. Me and my mates.
But now i am back with athletics, and i want to give it 200%.
The club i went to produce a world middle weight champion. He was a quality boxer, he was champion befor i was born.
thats all you need to know
I am a lennox lewis fan. Also i like Evander Holyfeild (great fighter). But when Tyson fighted Lewis.
I was not happy, i did’nt wnat the fight to go along. Yes Lennox Lewis won, lennox lewis is one of the greatest fighters of all time, and one of the best british sports athletes.
But Lewis did not beat Mike Tyson if you know what i mean. There was mothing there of him, am not making excuses but it is the truth.
And come on tyson is’nt a old man, isn’t in bad health. He can get into shape, i think he was lacking fitness and his boxing skills.
I am not saying if Tyson trainned harder, he would of beat Lewis. But he would of put up a better fight.
And the question about Mike Tyson, can’t handle pain, and his braveness. Was anserw that night. He did’nt give up, with what he had.
I wonder why the man, dose’nt get more busy. 49seconds it took to win his last fight.
Time is always ticking.
thank you
hmm, roy jones jr used weights only to gain hypertrophy so he could move up a weight class. didnt look any slower to me…my dad’s met mike tyson, now they say hes 5 10, but my dads 5 10 barefoot, 5 11 with shoes an told me tyson is like 5 8-5 9, and he was 220-225lbs, and honestly i think he did lift, not saying it was a huge part of his program, but that it was a supplemental part. I myself am 5 11 barefoot 230lbs currently, i was dropping fat like crazy and am still dropping it while gaining weight from my boxing training. I train with a team, they like me to go hard on their heavyweights(their actually kickboxers/mma, very very good, several national championships, maybe herb has heard of them, team Mi Ki Do, master mike hess?). My stamina isnt there yet but its gettin up, I do a lot of jump roping(i feel it helps with agility), one day a week strength endurance(body weight), heavy weights spread out(low reps, two exercises, I normally iso’s, two different kinds, helps with strength), and my sprints to work on my speed. Stamina will go up with jump roping I think along with workouts with the team, he wants me to commit to it but i love football too much and feel im too good at it to give it up. Oh and at last nights sparring session, had they not had head gears…
Numba56,
Do you really think Roy needed weights to beat Ruiz??? Roy walks around in the mid 180’s. When he fought Ruiz he weighted in at what 200lbs? and to quote him “in full sweats with rocks in my pockets”. No doubt he did some serious weight lifting for the fight. But not the hyperthrophy training you see in the bodybuilding mags. And yes he was slower, but didnt look it cause he was fighting Ruiz. Take a look at Roy’s fight at 175 against Gonzalez two years back and compare the speed difference. Its night and day. Do you think if they had made Roy come in at his lightheavy belt weight of 175 that he would have lost??? Hell, i think he may have done better.
You sound like you have a Tyson build, which means in most cases you’ll be giving away height and reach (the Klitchko bothers are 6’ 7". If your serious, get yourself some tapes or DVD’s of Tyson’s fights from the Spinks fight and working your way back. The speed, the head movement, the combinations were a thing of beauty. After the Spinks fight (Cus had already pasted away) Tyson cut ties with the people who laid his foundation and the skills start slowly slipping. When Tyson was released from Reform school to live with Cus D’Amato at 14 or 15 he was already 200lbs. In his best fights he came in under 214. That was just natural growth of a teenager. Anyone who trains seriously with weights from age 15 to say age 22 and only gains 12to14 pounds would say “what the hell am i doing wrong” D’Amato’s gym didn’t have no weights. If your interested in getting a hold of some old Tyson fights the following link is an excellent resource for Tyson (or just about any other bout goin back to the old black and white days). Your dad might be interested in seein some of the old stuff and Pat, the guy who runs the site is good people.
good luck with the football or the banging
td
i didnt say jones jr did bodybuilding workouts, but i think in an attempt to move up a weight class he lifted, i do, im very broad, but i think a difference is i have very large legs, even when i did do distance training when i was younger(6th grade), ive always been a big person, yes i know those fights were great and ive been trying to get them on tape, and im saying maybe weightraining wasnt a main stay, or not taken seriously at all by tyson, but i thought i remembered reading him saying he lifted when he was younger. his only deterioration after cus was buster douglas, and well then prison happened and it all went down hill. just imagine if he could have kept in line and taken every fight seriously…
I think that the question of weight training for a boxer is an interesting one.
I have a question:
- Would boxer’s benefit from CNS-esque lifting (low volume, high intensity) to build on their CNS drive or to build a strength reserve? It seems like in all of the cases metioned weights were used for hypertrophy.
low volume low rep to build strength yes that would be the route. I think because Jones is just a freak that the new stimulus even in a “functional” manner sent his size up. and as for tyson, natural ability…and yes it would be a francis like idea, since endurance and punching speed are developed with boxing itself, use the weightroom to develop absolute strength.