I wasn’t sure how to word this, but using bench, clean and squat for the 3 main lifts in sprinter’s program (depending on athlete):
Has anyone has found their athletes getting shoulder issues because of the minimal exercise selection?
I know cleans are used for RFD development, but do they provide enough strengthening of the appropriate back musculature to counterbalance the bench?
What’s is everyone’s experience with this?
They may be the main lifts but that don’t mean they have to be the only lifts.
In the off-season i normally chuck in some Pull-downs and seated rows. 2-3 sets of 10ish. You can chuck them in at the end and they don’t take too much out of ya.
In-season when the weight sessions have been cut back i normally just do pull-ups between bench sets. They should be a piece of piss so they don’t take anything out of ya.
I use pulldowns in the off-season cos i can easily progress the load. In-season i just do bodyweight pull-ups cos i don’t really care how strong they are, just for balance. If they start gettin’ too easy i stick a 10lb dumbell between my knees but the strength comes and goes (along with the dumbell) and i don’t worry about it.
Someone more knowledgable will probably tell us that don’t really solve shoulder issues. I chuck in lateral raises at the end of each session too, probably not the best fix either but then i don’t have any shoulder problems…
A lot of peeps have rounded shoulders because their chest and front delts are stronger than rear delts and some of the upper back muscles.
As a point of interest, with Usain Bolt, it was the other way round. His shoulders used to be too far back (according to coach Glen mills), so they did some work, and brang them forwards a little. Apparently, shoulders back behind center of mass, helps knee lift ( and stride length?), but gets in the way of cadence and rythm. Shoulders forward in front of c.o.m does not slow cadence, but hampers knee lift ( and stride length?).
The main thing is slouching over your computer desk, cause forward rounded shoulders.
I’d say that ling on a bench, performing rear delt flyes would be a good option to counter the pull from all the push ups and benching.
Mo Green performed bent over rear delt flyes and lat pulldowns.
Ben Johnson performed lat pulldowns.
Linford Christie got by on bent over rows.
Much of it is just daily habits, of how you sit and walk. In exercises that allow you an option of forward or backwards shoulders ( shoulder presses, lateral raises, push ups ) be conscious of keeping shoulders back, and getting those shoulder blades just a little closer to each other.
Beware of to much pull downs or chins as excessive lat development will push the shoulders forward as well. too many people confuse this and think they are countering presses…just take a look at male gymnasts
How do powerlifters get around the problem? If it’s an issue you are probably using incorrect bench technique (not using triceps enough) or you could also do rotator cuff work to balance everything out.
Just push and pull in roughly equal measure
That’s the problem, or at least a big part of it. No one it seems does rowing (or rear flyes) with anywhere near the weight or effort that they do with BP. The weight on BP and rows won’t be the same but it shouldn’t be like BP 260 and a few perfunctory sets of rowing with 135.
I see no problems and I bench press all the time, although one arm seated rows, lat pull downs, rear delt flys (mentioned lifts) are a part of my routine generally.
Rowing and such is not necessary at all. All that’s necessary is proper posture throughout the day. Do this and proper length tension relationships will stay in place.
Are you seriously saying that strength imbalance is not a factor in shoulder problems 
I think he is saying time spent in poor posture is perhaps more of a factor. Not sure if I can argue if that is right or wrong.
This is not true
If there is a strength issue I can just about guarantee it’s because of length-tension relationships. Keep a muscle in a lengthened state for too long and then it will become weak. Keep a muscle in a tightened state then it will become overactive and thus stronger than other muscles. This is the problem for many people. They are in a slouched position all day causing upper back muscles to become weak and then problems usually arise. Keep length-tension relationships normal and you’re not going to have any problems.
Real world experience: Look at any Sheiko powerlifting program and there is just about 0 upper back/rotator cuff/etc. work. And certainly no where near an equal volume. Does this equal shoulder problems? No. It equals world class powerlifting results.
I personally have only benched for my upper body for the last 8 months and have had no problems.
My question was if people have seen these problems when ONLY using these 3 main exercises.
I’m aware of everything else that has been stated thus far.
No.
And there is no need for cleans if you’re sprinting. So you will not see problems using those 3 exercises or only using the squat and bench.
Related qustions
would I create an imbalance over the long run if I push twice (bench, then M-press) and pull once in a workout (pull up, row) ?
or do I have to also pull twice if I want to push twice.
For what it’s worth, rowers generally do bench pulls, which are essentially the exact opposite of bench presses, when they do rows.
High bench, lying face down, barbell starting on the floor (the height of the bench is such that the arms are extended at the start of the lift), pulling the bar up until it touches the bench, and then letting it down.
Some will do bench press to balance it, some won’t.
A few will work in bent-over-rows (almost always as part of low-weight/high-rep workouts), but other than that, they tend for the most part not to do the rows that all of the other sports use.
I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned already, but one of the more common ways to avoid rotator cuff issues in the bench is to simply not bring the bar all the way down.
Strengthcoach.com pointed out some years ago that maximum force is developed at the upper part of the lift, while the stress on the shoulder joint is developed at the lowest part of the lift. If you watch competititive PL types train, you will often see them not bringing the upper arm much below parallel with the bench in training (it’s different for competition, of course).
You can also minimize rotator cuff stress by doing DB presses instead of the bar bench, and this is also true of shoulder presses (either seated or standing). I do DB shoulder presses, but don’t have any problems with standard bar bench presses with the technique I just mentioned.
I think there are two potential imbalances here. One is scapular protraction versus retraction. The second is external versus internal rotation of the humerus. There is some interrelation between these, but different muscles are involved too.
Scapular retraction and protraction involve the balance in the length/tension relationships between the anterior muscles (pecs, anterior delts) and posterior postural muscles (principally traps and rhomboids). Most of the time, the imbalance is in favor of the anterior muscles in the classic Janda cross pattern. In this case, stretching of the anterior muscles and additional pulling movements will help restore proper balance.
However, if the problem is internal versus external rotation, the situation is complicated by the fact that the lats and teres major are both internal rotators of the humerus. In this case, attempting to balance anterior strength with additional pulling exercises could just make things worse. Overhead pushing might be a better solution due to the demands on the external rotators during the movement. I have read several times that Bill Starr considers overhead pressing one of the best solutions for rotator cuff problems.
That was a great response but is there research that has been done in a lab that has been published, or anything close to it?
Also what are some of everyones recommendations on specific intensities and volumes regarding this? When should you rotate and change your exercises?
thanks