Hey charlie, whats your thought on Arginine? Free form or L-arginie? Which would you go? AAKG? I dont know if there the same or what/ Anyhow, either one can be found cheap in powder form.

Large amounts of Creatine cause water to be drawn into the muscle cells to dilute the creatine concentration. While a small amount will help to maintain the proper cell volume in situations where it might be too low, such as after intense training, too much fluid will cause tightness and injury risk. As the objective is to supply enough fuel, it makes sense to get that extra fuel, beyond a reasonable small dose of creatine, farther up the line. Arginine is a precursor to CP/ATP and helps to avoid overvolumization of the muscle cells and also is helpful in promoting blood flow. In the right combination aminos can work wonders (we’ve already discussed the role of tyrosine in outcompeting tryptophan for receptor sites, preventing the first stages of fatigue from affecting intense performance) -by CF on Creatine and Arginine

Some additional info that may help with understanding the dynamics of arginine.

Hope it helps… :slight_smile:


Arginine is potentially good to take both prior to and post workout. It is a vasodilator and thus promotes blood flow to peripheral tissues.

It also stimulates creatine synthesis. About 1% of the arginine you absorb is used for NO synthesis and significantly more for creatine synthesis according to some of the leading researchers in this growing field.

The minimu effective dose is ~3 grams. Plain arginine is the most cost effective way to supplement. (vs. AKG etc.)

with what or in what form do you take 3-5 of arginine…its tastes horrible. check out this arginine study

Pure Arginine does taste grim in powder form!
(it has been sucessfully blended into a drink preparation a friend is working on- I’ve tried it and hope it’s out in product form soon)

Pure Arginine does taste grim in powder form!

carnitine also majorly sucks, i bought some rasbeary flavoured powder carnitine and its like eating rust mixed with some nasty antibiotic

It might be worthwhile to co-supplement Arg with Glutamine. In addition to Arg’s effects on vasodilation and glycogen retention, it may also have some downsides for athletes.

As Arginine conserves glycogen, a likely counterregulatory effect induces fat breakdown or protein catabolism. Odds are, with Arg’s integral role-playing in the urea cycle, protein catabolism gets upregulated as opposed to fat breakdown. Studies have shown that glutamine may prevent this.

Oral? Isn’t the bioavailablity of glutamine extremely poor? Also, what were the quantity ratios recommended? (glut:arg)

Also, while taking any vasodilator, shouldn’t you concurrently take an antioxidant formula to counter the accelerated free radical production?

The oral bioavailability of glutamine is actually quite good. Quite a bit of what you consume however is metabolized by the intestines which has the beneficial effects on the immune system. But for anticatabolic effects you want a large dose to hit circulation as it does in the IV studies. Currently this is best done by utilizing a very large dose of 20-30g. There does seem to be some very effective solutions however coming shorlty.

In my opinion, you should always take an antioxidant pre or post trianingo prevent heavy radical damage.

I think it is important to look at amino acids from a global, systemic perspective, rather than view their status from an organ-specific standpoint.

Zepplin is right - while much of glutamine, in its raw form is not absorbed into the blood system, the intestinal obstacle is purely symantic. Regardless of what happens to glutamine in intestinal epithelial cells, the amino acid is still being added to the “collective” nitrogen pool. Don’t forget, the intestines are lean tissue, too. The intestines are just as viable a tool for catabolism - a reservoire for amino acids - as any muscle or lean tissue anywhere else in the body.

Glutamine, aside from being the most abundant amino acid in the blood (if you were to take a blood sample from any athlete, the amount of glutamine that would come out would be about double the concentration of the next highest - usually glycine - amino acid in the blood) is the priniciple oxidative fuel for small intestinal gut mucosal cells. In times of stress (like during exercise), glutamine is preferentially drawn from the blood to these enterocytes as absorption of nutrients from the gut becomes impaired.

What I’m saying is: digestive uptake of nutrients from the gut is slowed during stress, so the intestinal organ shifts its reliance for nutrition to the blood. When blood glutamine becomes depleted, branched chain amino acids are drawn out of the muscles before any other organ in the body to replenish plummetting levels of blood glutamine.

Studies have shown that this system only gets worse the longer your training session is and only gets worse in overtrained individuals - to such a point that muscle will become wasted if nothing is done about it.

Glutamine is also rapidly depleted by the liver and kidney during metabolic acidosis (in exercise, for example) because it channels ammonia out of the body, provides carbon skeletons for gluconeogenesis, and facilitates the flow and retention of bicarbonate ions (which serve as a blood buffer).

Increasing plasma glutamine increases the rate of glycogen synthesis and likely also increases the volume of glycogen retention in muscle tissue. This is probably what substantiates the “volumizing” effect of glutamine supplementation. Glycogen-rich compartments in the muscle thereby attract water into the muscle in much the same manner that salt excretion in the kidney attracts water into the bladder.

Dr Hollis,
Would you take then, as a hard trainer, 5 gms of glutamine pre-w/o or a few gms of BCAAs?
Thank you!

would taking arginine and/or bcaa before bed be of any benifit?

To my knowledge Arginine post workout BCAAS during or post workout.
However, Your girlfriend may like if you took arginine right before bed. It may have a positive effect when you wake up in the AM. :stuck_out_tongue:

Haha, now that you mention that quik… Might not be a bad idea… Giggity Giggity… :cool:

Usually the recommendation is to take Arginine before first meal (breakfast) and before Workout (without any other Prot!).
BCAAs during or after workout.

I guess other things have more useful effects before bedtime.

I’d think the best choice before bed would be Glutamine. We often use it combined with ZMA.


When do you recommend your athletes to take this combination?

a) Every night
b) During Low intensive days only
c) During High intensive days only
d) Higher stressful phases only (on all days)
e) Higher stressful phases only (on low days)
f) Higher stressful phases only (on high days)