Exactly, and the training was short to long, you can also see it from the competition results : in 1985 : 7.04 World Indoor Record in February, outdoors her season bests were 10.97 on 9 august, 21.78 on 11 August, both head winds, and had only one 400m prior Canberra (earlu october), on 22 september with 48.97. I’ll post her complete 1985 seaon results later if people are interested.
Only two competitions at 400m gives plenty of times to do monster SE workouts and time trials.
Please post, and if you can also post samples of Koch’s annual training that would be great.
Hot off the press from Arbeit. I didn’t even read this fully. Don’t know if you guys can turn him into cannon fodder at all here 
http://www.athleticscoaching.ca/UserFiles/File/Sport%20Science/Theory%20&%20Methodology/Throwing%20Events/Throwing%20Events%20(General)/Arbeit%20the%20performance%20Situation%20in%20the%20Event%20Group%20Throwing%202007%20Osaka%20.pdf
Here’s another fairly recent one http://www.athleticscoaching.ca/UserFiles/File/Sport%20Science/Planning%20&%20Periodization/General%20Concepts/Arbeit%20Training%20Periodisation.pdf
Is the 1 x 300 confirmed or is it myth like Ben’s squats pre OF final?
Do you think this may have real application? Maybe not 300m but say 200m focusing on rhythm an hour or so beforehand?
That was a big-ass secret weight room- must have been underground.
I’m not convincd I’m totall in the right thread for this post, but as the word rhythm got a mention, I thought I’d stick it here! How important do you feel rhythm is in training and racing. I hav a feling it is something I have overlooked recently. When with my old group every session had a couple of build up rhythm based run before a maximum effort and off that winter I produced my PBs. Now I am with a coach who is very speed based and there is little submaximal work except for 1200m of tempo after Tuesday and Thursday’s sessions, but I almost fel tempo is a little slow to get the ‘rhythmic feeling’ I used to get. I’m not sure if it’s as a consequence, but anyway it appears my training times are suffering and I feel this may be related as I don’t feel quite so good or smooth when I run. I am a taller athlete and perhaps this is more of an important issue for a rangy sprinters. I am not sure of the scientific underpinning, or if there is any for that last comment, or if there is an for this whole post! My degree is in Sport and Exercise Science and I try to use science to explain everything I do, but for this I can’t. Can anybody here give me some help on this? At the moment I can only come to the chicken and egg syndrome of it works because it does, and we do it because it works, and because it works we do it…
Last time it was confirmed was in Nice 2000, not in a secret warm-up pit, it was in front of all the fans and media for Pérec’s opener at 400m, and she did 270m instead of 300m after a negociation with Meier.
It looks like he’s having a seizure every time he does a squat. Maybe that accounts for why he was able to lift 600lbs!
Thanks PJ, do you know how long before hand and what intensity (95%?, 100%). What about my other question?
Do you think this may have real application? Maybe not 300m but say 200m focusing on rhythm an hour or so beforehand?
Maris,
I’m sure other more qualified people can answer this (and may contradict me) but my understanding is that in longer sprints, especially 400m, it is very important.
There is evidence that lactate actually helps to buffer acidosis during activity.
Cyclists have long felt that short harder efforts to ‘open up the legs’ as part of their warmup improve performance for stuff like time trials and I suspect it has to do with this effect.
If you can generate some lactate to get the buffering systems online but do it in such a way as to NOT generate excessive fatigue, that should help.
Lyle
Interesting and certainly something worth investigating in training.
Lactate is an amazing thing. I have been baffled till the last few days about my reaction to it versus comments of others. In my case I don’t get the burn others report, although I do know what they mean from having done 20 rep squats, in my case my legs just get heavier and move slower. :o
It appears ass I suspected it is age related 9I’m 45). I do get it just in a different way which is the heavy, slow legs.
I spoke to one of the guys at work who at 58, and despite most of the winter out with injury, will have a good shot at going under 60 sec for 400m this season. He has exactly the same feeling as me last week I got it real bad. With 80m to go I was gone and I had to concentrate really hard to keep making my legs move. It was like running in water
I asked if this had changed since he as in his 20’s (as I personally have nothing to compare it with) and he thought for a moment and said yes it has.
His PB’s are
52.8 which he did 3 times
Day 1
52.8 in heats
64 sec 400m hurdles (first time doing them)
52.8 in final
Day 2
800m @ 1.58 then 400m @52.8
interestingly he maintained his speed pretty well into his 40’s as he ran 54.1 in mid 40’s :eek:
I’m a speed skater and I often find that my second set of speed endurance work (might be something like 800 negative splitting the second 400 or a set of lap on/lap off with one lap hard/one lap easy) is easier than the first.
My legs don’t tie up as as much towards the end of the set, I still have something to push with, etc.
Lyle
I guess the key as you stated is If you can generate some lactate to get the buffering systems online but do it in such a way as to NOT generate excessive fatigue, that should help. which will be an individual thing (appropriate distance and rest) that may require a bit of time to ascertain hence my reference to doing that in training rather than jumping straight into it at next race situation.
DEFINTELY worth a look at though.
Haha,
when our old training group were doing 800’s, our main session involved 3 x 400’s - on grass - and pretty much flat stick - goal was to do the three in pretty much the same time, approx 10-15min recovery’s between each.
Now, often, as we got into shape, somebody at some time would pull off a PB during these 3 x 400’s, and typically it would mostly be the last 400m. We used to do pretty shitty warmups and the 1st 400m was typically say 1sec off ones best, 2nd 400m was typically close to Pb most times, and the 3rd was either suffering bad or close to Pb shape or Pb shape (Pb for grass anyway)
Perhaps this was due to not being 400m runners? our speed was only around 50-52sec on grass (depending on athlete).
Still, we often called that 1st 400m - “blowing out the cobwebs” and it did get you into rhythm for the following efforts.
On the hill session we (not me ) used to do of 3 x 2x360m Hill, we often got PBs on the second and third set.
On the power circuit, which was around 5-8mins long, depending who did it, we also routinely got faster time for the second circuit than the first.
I think John’s probably correct suggesting it has something to do with activating the buffering mechanism. But perhaps also it’s just that the fear factor gives way (in the daunting face of the coach’s scowl 
) to a submission to the fact that, hey, we can stay here all day and night if needs, but that last set will be done before we abandon this hill :eek:
KK did the warmup for hills vary from that for the track sessions?
I do my hills differently (4 x approx 75sec with 15 mins between) and due to the surroundings warm up used to be different, on those occasions 2nd rep was always the money one and I put it down to as Bold says rep 1 blowing the cobwebs out.
Interestingly the last 2 x I did long hills (after 9 weeks SPP which included overdistance work on the track) with the same warm up as with track sessions I changed it and did accelerations first
week 1
3 x 4 x 40 rec 4.5 / 10
1 x long hill
week 2
2 x 4 x 40 rec 4.5 / 10
2 x long hills with 15 min between
week 1 I set a long hills PB and week 2 another PB on rep 1 but was signifcantly slower on rep 2 and was wasted at the end of it.
I think we should move this lactate discussion over to the lactate thread so everyone can follow what’s actually being discussed now.
I posted a link there to this for that reason but agree it should now carry on there.
Thank you for getting back to me. It’s something that is very hard to quantify, and I can’t really see any science behind it, but for I think it’s vital. I guess there are undoscovered theories which means at the moment, science can’t explain everything. No doubt later, something will come up that can explain it! Sorry for sticking that question in this thread though.