My best 4mile was at bud/s 25:50. And best 1.5Mile alittle over 9min. You stop running timed 1.5M ealry in the pipline this turns into timed 4mile. so likley i could have run a faster 1.5M at the time i was running high 25mins for 4M.
Sun- 10/10/15
5 sets apread though out day**(push ups x11 + pullups x 2 + flr x20s. + 8counts bodybuilders x 5 +flr x 20s.)
4pm
Long Run 3.6miles @ E pace (4 strides at end) 43.30min
30/30 abs = 150abs
*legs felt flat during the run. Tomorrow’s rest day will be perfect to get some juice back in my legs for next weeks training.
Heres an overview of my planned up coming week:
Mon:
S1. Push up pyramid 2r > 20r > 2r (increasing 2r every rung untill 20r then back down) then 10 x (pull x 4 , sl glute bridge x 12, abs x 54) then aux (neck/traps + iso back ext + shoulder/cuffs
S2. Wu- 1mile @ E pace + 3x 800m @ I pace (4:10) RI=4min cd- 1mile @ E pace
Tues:
(sets spread throughout day) 5x (push up x 14 + pull up x 3+ 8-counts x 6+ flr x 2 x 30s) + 30/30 abs = 180r
S1. “Long swim” @ easy pace 1125m
S2. 3 x 1M @ M pace (9:56) + 1 x 800 @ M pace RI 3-4min
Wed:
S1. Fartlek swim 10-15min (30s -3min surges at comfortably hard pace with full recoveries @ easy pace b/w
S2. 6x (decline push up(hands on bench) x 34 + lateral lunge x 12+ pull up x 7+ hydrants x 14 + abs x 90) then aux (neck/traps + iso back ext + shoulder/cuffs
S3. Wu- 1mile @ E pace then 3x200 @ R pace (53s) RI 2min + 2x400 @ R pace (1:46) RI 4min cd - 1mile @ E pace
Thurs:
(sets spread throughout day) 5x (push up x 14 + pull up x 3+ 8-counts x 6+ flr x 2 x 30s) + 30/30 abs=180r
S1. Wu- swim 225m @ easy pace then 3x225 (all out) 5min RI
Fri:
S1. 5x (push ups <5 plates under chest> x 40 + pull up x 8-9) then 5x ( lunge x16 + glute bridge x 15) then abs x 540r total so 30/30 or as few sets as possible then aux (neck/traps + iso back ext + shoulder/cuffs
S2.wu-1mile @ E pace then 3x1000m @ T pace (5:40) 1-2.5 RI (depending on how this session goes) then cd-1mile @ E pace
Sat:
(sets spread throughout day) 5x (push up x 14 + pull up x 3+ 8-counts x 6+ flr x 2 x 30s) + abs 30/30 = 180r
S1. Long run 4.3miles @ E pace maybe a few strides with in long run
Sun:
Rest
Joel osteen(preacher)- 18x400m(texas high school track practice)
- he said this was a day from one of his texas high school track practices.
- it sounds like a middle distance workout.
Nice i was thinking of building to something like this as an ext tempo session. I feel it night help my 1.5M times. Though i dont know where i could put it with my present schedule.
Ive been having thoughts on load progression/recovery:
-i might go to 3:1 depending on how training goes this week (this will be my 3rd week), if i feel good ill stick to 5:1 or maybe 5:2 depending on how i feel at that point.
- i do feel general fatigue but nothing thats limiting me from performing my sessions. Week 1 ,of this cycle, my speeds for my v02 max, threshold, and marathon pace sessions were alittle to excessive. So may still have some lingering fatigue from that.
-also thinking of the possibility of droping a ‘hard’ running session if i had to. Right now i am doing a threshold, v02, speed, marathon pace and a long run every week. Threshold, v02, and speed are all considered ‘hard’ sessions that require rec days b/w. Depending on who you talk to a long run could be considered a hard session as well (though i dont think mine is at the moment with my current volume and i do my long runs at easy pace). But i may drop one of these ‘harder’ runs/week (depending on how i feel later on down the road) question is which one (maybe even drop a hard run and marathon pace session) and add in strides,ext tempo, or pool running to replace taken ‘hard’ session.
- ive been thinking on what direction i want to take my next cycle/s after finishing this one. For next cycle, im thinking either repeat my current cycle and continue building volume for another 3-5 weeks (ie-for runs and swims-not progressing speed in runs or swims, just progress with 10-20% added volume/week - as for calisthenics add 20% volume/ week as well) . My feeling if i keep to this schedule for another cycle my aerobic system will be developed nicley with a larger base. Then work on progressing speed and holding volume steady something like oldbloke suggests (pace work). Or work speed (pace work/oldbloke) this next cycle because i am dirt slow right now then add in endurance cycle after pace has been built. In the long run i think another base/endurance cycle will pay off more because of my current poor general fitness and i think itd be better to milk gains from relatively easier aerobic/endurance work as compared to pace training which is more intensity/speed driven. After a big base is built then do a more pace/speed focused cycles.
Good times - within the target range.
So:
- You have the necessary speed/endurance, ie are able to sustain 6 min mile pace. Which is good.
- Your previous training regime (whatever it was) must have been pretty good for running - since it worked.
- Your current overall mileage and length of longer runs are relatively low. So there is scope to increase them, which is what you would expect at this stage in training.
Improving aerobic base is probably the way to get greatest benefit at the moment.
Once I was running around 25m per week and doing long runs of 10m I would run intervals such as:
400m, 800m, 1M, 800m, 400m
4x1000m
600m, 800m, 1000m, 800m, 600m.
All at 6 min mile pace or slightly quicker with 400m jog recovery.
Then 4x1M or 2x2M at 6 min pace. with 3 min recoveries.
TheDelayed Entry Program(DEP) is aprogram whereby individuals going into active duty in the United States Armed Forces enlist first in theDEP*before they ship out to Basic Training, or "boot camp. If you choose to volunteer for any naval special warefare(NSW) jobs with in the navy, you are required to take a monthly PST (500yd swim- push up- sit ups- pull ups-1.5M run) with a regional NSW coordinator. Minimum scores are required on the PST before you can get a NSW contract and ship out to bootcamp before beggining your chosen job’s pipline.
I was in the DEP program for ~1yr - 1.5 yrs before leaving for bootcamp my first stint in the navy, this was my own choice because i wanted to make sure i was prepared for bud/s with solid training and good PST scores. With liitle training geared towards PST,as i was doing crossfit acouple months before DEP, my first PST taken in DEP my scores were approx :
500yrd swim CSS (no fins)- ~10:30
Push ups in 2min (can only rest in top position)- ~60
Sit up (can only rest in top position) - 65
Max Dead hang Pull ups= 8-10
1.5M - 10:30
This was passing but no where near exelerated scores.
After about 4-6months in DEP training with SEAL coordinator ~3-5 day/week as well as throwing in 3-5 crossfit WOD’s 3-5x/week. i worked down to my best pst scores to:
500yrd swim- 8:30
Push ups- 100
Sit up ~90
Pull ups 20
1.5M run: 9.10- 9.20
Heres the thing my scores stalled for remainder of the time i was i DEP ~8- 12 months of training with no progress doing the same training as above (seal coordinator/crossfit). This is where (this time around i can make some nice improvments) looking back Crossfit wasnt terribly bad for GPP work but as far as my training goals it honestly didnt have much to do with them. Training with seal coordinator was interesting. Amazing guy. Prior frog man. His workout were generally structured the same way ~3hour sessions:
1500-3000m of swimming intervals
High volume calisthenics
Running intervals
*looking back at his training. Above is the only structure his training really had. When you look deeper, most of his training was all races “pays to be a winner” beat down sessions. Whether swim intervals, run intervals, or calisthenics workout, everything was a race against whom ever you were training with, adding crossfit to this i can see why my PST platuaed for (8-12months) after about 4-6months of this training. Usuay every swim interval was a race. Calisthenics was similar (ie. 300 squats, 300 push ups, 200 pull ups as fast as possible), running was almost always race interval after race interval (never any true distance work or proper intervals) and usually running was the most lacking as far as volume. This kind of training was great mental prep for bud/s and specific training for bud/s. It was kinda like going through a single evolution at bud/s only at bud/s you do several evolutions a day with higher stress conditions obviously. A great thing i did with him was a 50 hour mini hell week challenge. He was actually a 1st phase bud/s instructor for awhile as shore duty when he was in the SEAL teams. From what i hear he was a great frog man and a satanic 1st phase instructor. Made his bud/s class run a timed 4mile beach run with sand in their mouth. And thats the least of it. Awesome guy.
With the knowledge/help/experience i have now. My second train up for bud/s will be more productive and in turn have better test results.
After DEP you do acouple PST’s in bootcamp, though my times decreased alittle in bootcamp as do most seal candidates, you become alittle deconditioned in bootcamp. After bootcamp this version of the PST was not really done anymore (desides doing it at bud/s once or twice) it was modified/ lengthened to be used as a test out at the end of pre bud/s to get a ticket to the big show bud/s.
Then from bootcamp i classed up for class up for pre bud/s (~2-3months of training to prepare for bud/s). This was pretty structured training. Swim 5 days/week, mostly intervals of diffrent lengths on the clock with some lsd swimming thrown in, run M,W,F. The first couple weeks were M,W farlteks on the track (ie 1 lap easy, 1 lap hard or jogg curves run straights) Friday was almost always a long run usually after runs we would do bodyweight sets, rope climbs ect. After ~ 3 weeks Mon and wed turned in to intervals monday usually 400m x 5-10 repeats with 2min rest and wed 800s,1200s,1mile and 2mile repeats forget recovery but always relatively short. Tues and thurs were gym sessions. Usually bodyweight circuits, bb lifting, or some crosstraing thrown in. At the end of pre bud/s is the modified pst (if you dont pass you get dropped from program and dont goto bud/s):
Minimum scores
1000yrd swim (with fins): < 20min
2min push ups: >70
2 min sit ups: > 70 ( i think)
Dead hang pull ups on cadence: >10
4mile run: < 30 or 31 min
My scores were around
16:40 for swim
100 push up
90-100 sit up
alittle under 20 pull up
27-28min 4mile run
- the problem with pre bud/s is these workouts are done with large grouos of trainees. Pacing is left up to you. Once the clock starts you have xx minutes to do the interval and rest before the next one. I feel i may have shorted myself here alittle by brining with me the mind set from my nsw coordinators training and doing everything all out “pays to be a winner” style of training (which has its place especially at bud/s, but i feel i could have reaped more benefits and been healthier and fitter if i had a pacing strategy after, all the tortoise won the race. My splits would almost always be getting slower on any given workout, which i feel left some pre mature burn out before bud/s. Looking back at bud/s even pacing is a tool i under utilized even in some instances you dont have a choice, well in my mind i didnt.
I agree improving aerobic base is the way to go. Looking back at my training my first time going through(look at my last my post which i wrote earlier today to see the kind of training i did prior if you are interested ) it was definitely lower mileage training that got me there which makes me wonder. Maybe thats why my times stalled for so long. Needed a bigger base. I like these intervals you posted, will have to use something like these eventually.
I am currently 225# 6ft 3in. First time in navy ( 2009)was around 190-200#. Since ive been out i did some bodybuilding which has added a good amount of mass weight as well as not being lean right now with excess body fat. Which i am going to have to work on Losing some weight to get back down to around 200#. I think 185-190 would be even more beneficial for bud/s, though i feel that might be tough with my frame. Droping weight would definitely help with my running, and calisthenics GREATLY dont know if it would positively affect my swim but doesnt matter this training/bud/s is pretty grueling on the body so losing weight is not a question. The question is what weight is optimal/possible/most efficient for my goals/frame.
Any suggestions on this would be appreciated
10/11 (yesterday)
Rest day
Stretch a roll
Feel great today ready for the week
10/12
Mon:
3pm-
Wu- roll + full body dynamic stretch
Then
Push up pyramid 2r > 20r > 2r (increasing 2r every rung untill 20r then back down)+ rev lunge x 6 between push up sets
then
10 x (pull x 4 , sl glute bridge x 8, abs x 54)
then
aux: wrestlers bridge x 2 x 30s ea (flexion /extension) + iso back ext x 3 x 40sec + shoulder/cuffs x 2 x10-15ea + bb shrug x 2 x 15-20 x 200#
Later
8pm
Wu- 1mile (2-3 strides towards end) @ easy pace +
Dynamic stretch+ A drill x 2 x 15yrd
Then
3x 800m @ I pace (4:10) RI=4.5 min
(4.12, 4.12, 4.09)
Then
cd- 1mile @ E pace + full body static stretch
Contrast shower- 5min hot, 5 min cold
been messing around with times and sequencing of hot and cold to find what my body responds to best
*everything felt great today. Weather has finally been cooling down. 77 F this evening.
Needed a bigger base
This is what I was trying to get you to see about what you have told us thus far. Most of what I have seen you doing is very specific to your end goal. Not terrible but the tempo is one aspect that will be helping you to improve your overall ability to do more work, harder work, more volume.
You are getting your ideas across just fine. It’s complicated for everyone to both explain and give advice to some extent because there are many variables woven into your training. Don’t worry about this part.
But besides the point, i do feel pool running could prove to be beneficial, and i do need to think out of the box. I guess the question is where to fit it in my schedule (i have a good number of sessions every week as is but things can be changed), as well as, i have never run any session of this sort and at the moment i dont think i can properley implement it correctly and effectively. I have read a good deal about them here, maybe you could answer some questions i am unclear on for these pool running sessions.
I am assuming these arent all out efforts, so they’d have to be prescribed off of a time trial and use 75% and under for aerobic development and recovery? If you dont do something like this how do you know the athlete isnt pushing into the upper zones and impeding recovery?
I want you to think of using the pool to accelerate your ability to recover from work and also to improve your ability to work harder. If you are using the high and low method of scheduling high intensity days followed by low intensity days then 2 or 3 sets of running in the pool ( 1 rep of running in pool is 45 seconds of running on the spot, with 15 seconds of rest repeat to 10 in one full set)
Over time I used to do all out effort in the pool. But only when I got really good at it and my fitness was top notch. If I did all out pool workout today one set of 10 it might take me 2 days to recover. ( please don’t laugh. it’s okay if you do, I can take it)
Charlie and I started using the pool more and more with clients. Why? Normal people can’t handle too much of anything unless they get really serious like an athlete. THE problem always is everyone wants to do what they want to do and no one wants to feel like a baby or that they can’t do the work.
At this point try to accept what I am saying until you figure it out or we teach you or you understand. Trust us.
If someone is not fit or they are not great in the pool the pool running just might be high intensity for them. Remember that high intensity is a percentage of your best effort. AS Oldbloke is pointing out it’s a not only a perceived best, you can track it scientifically if you do your heart rate monitoring. I’d be able to tell your effort level by watching you. Id get to understand what you were capable of in one session and the more I watched you train the more I would see and understand from watching you.
Would you use these pool sessions to substitute normal easy runs altogether or use them every now and then to lessen the stress on the body ie during unload weeks or days i feel the body needs alittle something less stressful than even an easy run.
Or would you use them on harder days 75% and up?
You can use the pool for both.
One of Charlie’s athletes had surgery and was restricted to pool only workouts for 6 weeks and went on to break a Canadian record in the 800meters. I tell this story to anyone questioning the use of the pool.
Lots of people don’t like training in the pool because of their hair. 
If I used the pool for a harder day I might do the harder lifting for example and then push myself in the pool. I have actually hurt my self in the pool so be mindful of that.
What do you mean when you say you believe right now i do some very specific things but might be lacking some background training?
What I meant was you are already focused very specifically on modeling todays workout with what the test is 8 to 12 months away. For sure you need to have specifics right now but don’t overlook building the widest base possible with things like some very easy, repeatable workouts in the pool as well as medicine ball workouts. I see from this post that your training background must be more extensive than what you have reported here initially or you would have had more issues than the injury.
I may come off as ignoring certain things such as pool running or the high low med idea, but its that i dont grasp the concepts to effectivley use these ideas at the moment and i dont doubt their effectiveness and would enjoy using them for my goals. I have used high low med in the past with good results. I dont know how to apply them for distance running though or distance swimming.
I understand this. Thank you for clarifying.
I have studied many diffrent material for all sorts of training, its become a passion of mine post military, though still consider myself a begginer and am always trying to learn. The tough part is putting it all together for my goals with the military, distance running, endurance in various calisthenic exercises, work capacity, swimming, ect. James smith book has helped a good deal as well as other things and that is why i am here because i know youall know a good deal and i appreciate all of the help that is given. i look back to when i first went to bud/s (and thrived besides the injury) and think man i didnt know shit and was doing just fine. I trained for the good part of a year my first time going in the military, not knowing zilch compared to now, and always remind myself of that. I had exelerated scores on my pst. I am fearful of never being prepared enough but i know i will be, this is what i want. I am looking forward to going back stronger and wiser. My goal is to be able to pass at least all timed physical events by a mile, which i have done before, mostly everything besides timed events , i feel regarding bud/s, you either have or you dont. I need to focus on my swim times push ups pull ups sit ups and run times because this is what will get me there. Once these are good to go ill put more focus on next things down list. What i am currenlty doing is modeled off of james smiths book on training for selection. I know he has been to bud/s and has trained clients for bud/s. I wrote up 12 weeks of training off of his manual and would like to at least stick to it for atleast a 6 week cycle and go from there. Angie and oldbloke have both made great suggestions which i have taken to heart and will likley add in as time goes.
Again thank you all for your help. It is priceless to me.
It sounds like you have done a great job before based on your own analysis and the injury was accidental not from anything you might have been able to prevent. You have a plan based on your own experience as well as drawing more experience from a very specific plan based on a book you are finding useful.
Training question that ive always wondered
Distance coach says, repeats at mile pace (ie 400m at mile pace) with full recoveries (1/2-3= w/r) is “speed” work for distance runner (anaerobic power, economy and speed) cant do this everyday, hard to recover from
Sprint coach says recovery/aerobic cap work is ext tempo (ie 75% and under of best at that distance, short rest) can do this every day easy to recover from
Ill use my current self as an example: tests ~ 10weeks ago
7min-1 mile (mile pace)
400m- 85 sec
So why is it if i do 400m repeats @ mile pace (1:45/400m) with work/rest @ 1/2-3 this is hard to recover from and shouldnt do much volume of (relatively -not 4000m of) or frequency per week says distance coach
But
Sprint coach says
Ext tempo 8x400m @ 1:53 (75%) w/ short rest say 1-2min rec, is recovery work and can do frequently. To a distance coach this would be borderline mile pace"speed"/vo2max work and would be a hard workout?
Ive always been greatly confused by this. Even if ext tempo was dropped to 65% (~2:11/400m) this would still be threshold work to a distance coach and a hard workout as well, definitely not to be done everyday. The distance session even has 2-3times more recovery granted it is done faster. One calls it recovery/aerobic work the other calls it a speed session. I dont get it…
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Remember that % of max is personal not just theoretical. % of your max is how you get the level of intensity combined with the actual exercise evaluation. Power Cleans will be high intensity for everyone. It does not mean everyone should do them because they might be too unfit to even try one.
You will not go wrong ensuring that you follow some version of a high and low intensity method of training.
The tempo we did after speed sessions was so slow it was like jogging. The volumes of tempo after a series speed session would be very very easy 100 meters with a walk back 2 to 10 depending on the person.
The tempo we did on a low day or non speed day might be very very slow as well with almost no break but continuous.
You sound like you know what you are doing but you sound like you need and want to learn more and you will. DO NOT stray from what has worked. Don’t let others tell you something you know for sure based on what you did. One of the things I see and have seen is until I see you or watch you its tough knowing 100 percent what is going on. The most important thing you have told me and us in this post is it’s gone well for you in the past. This means the pressure is off and unless there is some smoking gun we are not aware of… the rest will fall into place and what you might learn here will improve what happens in 8 to 12 months.
There is not much if anything I don’t agree with regarding Oldblokes advice.
( except for when we wanted to disagree with me ;0
10/13
Tues:
(sets spread throughout day) 5x (push up x 14 + pull up x 3+ 8-counts x 6+ flr x 2 x 30s)
S1. - 3pm
Wu- 1set of calisthenics
Then
“Long swim” @ easy pace (piers) 1125m (31.25)
Then
10 x 45s/15s off water running (in the gulf/ water above belly button)
(First 5 at 90 steps/45s, last 5 @ 105 steps/45s)
Then
Cd- 1 set if calisthenics
*swimming is coming along well. Felt good.
*going to add in water running at end of tues/thurs swim sessions in ocean (if water conditions are reasonable). Interested to see results as i have never done water running. I didnt really feel like i was working maybe thats how its supposed tobe or add steps/45s. My goal for this is to add extra conditioning/recovery . Will see if this takes away from me (physically) or adds to me (which is what im looking for)
Later
7pm
Wu- 1set calisthenics
Then
S2. 3 x 1M @ M pace (9:56) + 1 x 800 @ M pace RI 3-4min
Then
Cd- 1 set of calisthenics + 30/30 abs 180r
Contrast shower- 5min hot, 5min cold
10/14/15- wed
12pm
Wu- dynamic full body
Then
Progression swim 675m (18.25)
*start easy- finish hard
*felt weak with my pull today. Chop was 1-2ft.
3pm
Wu- dynamic stretch
6x (decline push up(hands on bench) x 34 + lateral lunge x 12+ pull up x 7+ hydrants x 14 + abs x 90)
then
aux- wrestlers bridge x 2 x 30s ea. + iso back ext x 3 x 40s+ shrug x 215-20x 200 +shoulder/cuffs 2 x 15-20 ea
7:30pm
Wu- 1mile (2 strides at end) @ E pace then 3x200 @ R pace (53s) RI 2min + 2x400 @ R pace (1:46) RI 4mi
(52,49,50) (1.47,1.47)
Then
cd - 1mile @ E pace*+ static stretch
Absolutely correct.
Looking at your Navy based training you made great progress with very regular very tough training. I have huge regard for what your instructor demonstrated and the way you were able to follow it. But daily busting a gut is known in sporting circles to provide good early progress but an early peak of performance that fails to meet the athletes true potential.
Whether endurance running or sprinting most coaches would agree that 2-3 hard sessions per week is the max before fatigue, injury, early peaking occurs. Hard could be speed or it could be fast sustained work, or it could be very long runs/swims. Essentially where you are modelling competition type intensity.
Building a base though lower intensity work should make up the remainder of training. Especially if your target is primarily endurance events.
So it`s steady paced runs, tempo running, pool work that build this base.
Running Base : My preference would be for contionous steady runs rather than tempo. Not because it is harder/easier but is more event specific for you.
Swimming Base : My triathlete friend does not do any other cross training - so if he goes in a pool he swims rather than any other form of pool work. He does not have time for any other variations of fitness and works on 3x event specific movements and technique.
Pool running is definately beneficial for high mileage runners (eg Mo Farah) since it provides event specific movement that is non impact and cardio beneficial. But he is not doing any swimming events of course. And for sprinters it is a benefit for equivalent reasons explained by Angie.
Looking at your Navy based training you made great progress with very regular very tough training. I have huge regard for what your instructor demonstrated and the way you were able to follow it. But daily busting a gut is known in sporting circles to provide good early progress but an early peak of performance that fails to meet the athletes true potential.
I understand what you are saying here. And for all its worth experiences such as this have motivated me to search for better ways, as im sure many on here can relate.
Whether endurance running or sprinting most coaches would agree that 2-3 hard sessions per week is the max before fatigue, injury, early peaking occurs. Hard could be speed or it could be fast sustained work, or it could be very long runs/swims. Essentially where you are modelling competition type intensity.
From most all the training material i have read, its all agrees with what you are saying in reference to frequency of “hi” or “hard” days per week. I have been thinking this very same thing. I have been following Mr Smiths recommendations for spec op selection preperation, for all training thus far this cycle, and things have been going good. As far as running he suggests Daniels running formula, and adhering to his guidlines, which i own and am very familiar with. Ive been using Mr Smiths suggested weekly running schedule. Hard days can be switched around but this has been what ive been using.
Mon- interval
Tues- easy or marathon
Wed- repetition
Thurs- easy or marathon
Fri-threshold
Sat-long run (at easy pace)
Sun- off
Jacks weekly volume suggestion (top limit) in a single session
Long run- 25- 30% or less
Marathon - 20% or less
Threshold - 10% or less
Interval - 8% or less
Repetition - 5% or less
*i understand the human body is more dynamic than these recommendations. But the goodthing is i have a starting point. I know if i was to work with a competent coach such as yourself, angie, james smith, charlie, Jack ect ect i know things would not be so cookie cutter, and evolve to my own person, which i what i am trying to fugure out myself with some help. Im sure jack breaks his guidlines all the time. But as i said its a starting point for me
- i do question things though as to why or how they are done and intertrrelate, not because i do not believe it will work but am beyond curious. alot of things you and angie and others have brought up has run threw my mind, which i know is a good thing.
*the long sessions have me baffled at the moment as to wether call these hard sessions or easy. JD uses them both as hard sessions and easy, but from what i gather it depends on the ohase of training. Ie base =hard session. James smith seams to use them as an easy day from everything ive read in his book. Maybe just in the context of training for spec ops selection. Arthur lydiard i believe used them as hard sessions but its all in context of training.
*ive also wondered the same about marathon pace training some call this slower/longer duration threshold training (hard) and some call it easy day (which is how i am using it at the moment.) This can all be very condescending sometimes. If training does start becoming fatiguing the long run and marathon run will be one of the first places i look
Running Base : My preference would be for contionous steady runs rather than tempo. Not because it is harder/easier but is more event specific for you
What would you define as a steady state run. M pace run or something between M and E?
Swimming Base : My triathlete friend does not do any other cross training - so if he goes in a pool he swims rather than any other form of pool work. He does not have time for any other variations of fitness and works on 3x event specific movements and technique.
Pool running is definately beneficial for high mileage runners (eg Mo Farah) since it provides event specific movement that is non impact and cardio beneficial. But he is not doing any swimming events of course. And for sprinters it is a benefit for equivalent reasons explained by Angie.
I can relate with what you are saying. I feel i am training similar to triathlete (many things to work on). I dont have much wiggle room. Its seems you are making a case here against using pool running (at least at the moment) though your comment about using pool work (as well as steady state runs)as a low intensity means to build a bigger base i makes me think i may be wrong
10/15
Thurs:
(sets spread throughout day) 5x (push up x 14 + pull up x 3+ 8-counts x 6+ flr x 2 x 30s)
12pm
Swim CSS
Wu- 225m @ easy pace
Then
2x 225m (all out) 5min RI
(5.20,5.25)
*planned on doing 3 reps, but was feeling really slopping/not efficient or on rythm with my stroke. Zigzagy and all
Abs x 180
Pool running : I prefer pool running to swimming in virtually all cases for all types of runners. I suspect also very valid for other sports that are running dominant.
BUT the exception is for multi events that include swimming, where there are the movement and skill specific benefits of doing swimming itself.
Steady Runs : At E or M pace according to how you feel. These are just aerobic base builders. The typical 4-7 mile run done on a regular basis by distance runners. I would not agonise too much over the pace its just a case of going on to auto pilot and grinding these out on a regular basis.
Long Runs : Some people find them hard, some find them easy. There is no particular rule - it can be partly mindset. Some people get bored by long slow runs. Some people struggle with the aggression mindset necessary for hard intervals. It can be physical attributes - tall, strongly built, fast twitch tend to struggle more on long runs.
Your 7 day schedule from jack D : Looks ok, pretty standard with hard day/easy day. Whether you can keep to this model depends on how hard you push yourself on the interval sessions and whether you find the long run hard or not.
How do the runs interrelate : This is a book in its own right. Here is my effort to explain.
Jack D training sessions work across a a range of speeds. These work on aerobic, aerobic/threshold, VO2 max. So you are training a range of aerobic categories by improving blood capilliary flow, heart conditioning etc. You are also training yourself to run at various speeds which is beneficial in terms of race pace judgement.
If you have time, read works by Frank Horwill (multi pace or 5 pace training) which approaches a similar model by varying speeds of race pace training.
The best way of explaining this is by Franks`s early discovery of how to train for an early career 4 mile race. He based most of his runs on doing 6 mile runs slower than his target pace (so he was confident he could cover the distance) and 2 miles faster than race pace so he was ok with the necessary speed.
This sounds obvious, but is a brilliantly simple and easy to follow model that can be adopted for any race distance. Typically serious runners will tend to follow pace related training rather than JD related ranges.
Franks model has very similar underlying principles to JD but expressed in a different way. So in a Horwilll model a 5000m runner would do intervals at 1500m pace, 3,000m pace, 5,000m pace, 10,000m pace and 1/2M pace. The 5 paces, 2 faster than race pace and 2 slower. Plus easy runs to build mileage. This complexity of intervals and level of difficulty is more relevant to elite distance runners but can be applied by running at fewer race paces - eg 3 pace training`.
The interesting challenge you have is running 1.5M, 4M 14M and generally being on your feet all day in a camp. An athletes model would focus on someone running 2 distances that are closely linked - 800/1500, 5000/1000 etc.
So the question is how to interrelate the various multi pace runs, whether described by either JD or FH.
My approach is simply described as
- Run a load of miles at comfortable pace to prepare a general aerobic base, prepare for a 14m run and prepare for general hours of running around camp. 4-8 miles on a
regularbasis and get the long run above 10 miles. - Runs intervals at or slightly quicker than 6m pace to prepare to set good times on the 1.5M and 6M races.
- Occasional time trial over 3M to check your 4M progress.
This is how I would train for your range of distances. But based on my personal preferences and mind set - If you have started with JD and find it is working stick to it.
I tried a bit of JD training, I tried heart rate monitoring and both drove me mad. JD paces were an agony of timing every course and trying to stick to it. HRM band kept falling off !!!
This may be useful or it may just have confused you further…