Coach like Staley recommends focusing on maximal strength development for training Agility in football/Soccer ,agility is training only at 11-12 age.
What’s your oinion?
Where did you read these statements?
In the last issue of testosterone’s magazine there was this assertion:
" Staley recommends focusing on maximal strength development, as it’s highly trainable and foundational to other elements."
IMO, they are 2 different things
Valerio
I think you’d be a fool not to train agility. Everyone knows you can get much more agile in any task at any age just by knowing what the hell you’re supposed to be doing. Anyone who’s worked in the restaurant industry knows that. But agility is best trained while practicing the sport. Just bend the rules of the sport/practice so that your target skill is emphasized. I do like using agility ladders and so called “unstable surfaces” in my extra/restorative workouts because they are fun and non-taxing.
What is agility?
Everyone talks about the David Boston transformation…some use to talk about Ty Laws improvement with Bob K 7 years ago…but I never see anyone make big strides in the quickness area of sports.
Good question. I recently watched one of my school’s football players get tested by an NFL scout. They did a series of so-called “agility” tests (i.e. shuttle test and “L” test) that this player tested average in. In actual football related one-on-one drills, the player tested very well.
So what do these agility test tell us? If we train to do well in these strict agility tests, will the athlete’s abilities in football improve? Most of the player’s problems in the agility tests - in my opinion - were related to posture and application of force - qualities that cannot be fixed with an agility ladder.
The main issue with agility training is the carry over of nonspecific training to the specific sport. Up to about age 12, developing coordination in one type of activity will have a carry over to general coordination that can be applied to other movement patterns. After age 12, this general carry over effect dramatically diminishes. From that point on, the best way to improve coordination in a speciific sport or activity is to practice that activity. With regard to general agility drills, people who practice them will improve at those specific drills, but there will not be much carry over to other activities, from a neurological standpoint. Using the common footbal example, one of the main components of footbal game agility is reaction to visual cues (i.e. other players), which are absent in agility ladder drills.
From my experience a too many times ignored feature of “agility” is the actual reaction time,wich again I find extremely linked with posture and force modalities-as NumberTwo stated.
I am sometimes skeptical of opportunity windows as strictly related to age.
It is undoubtful there are some,but too many factors are implied here to make things that easy.
As an example I have seen some Senior(20+ y.o.) Swimmers who had been extremely poor Soccer players whole their lives,even at a very recreational level,suddenly find themselves at ease and appreciated on the field after switching their competitive activity to Waterpolo for a few months…
Here is my response to this “choas” not the “biological organism (semi-cyclical chaos)” stated in the DB Hammer thread from Joe cole…
(1)Agility is not speed ladders…bungie cords…or catalog device but a quality of multi directional speed and footwork that implies a change of direction. What athletes have it, how did the get it, and how can we enchance it. Any David Boston agility transformations?
(2)Since every trainer is working with elite athletes in secret German facilities using methods that include new vocabulary…where is the improvement? Should I look for Tom Brady from the patriots to be juking and jivin’ like Mike Vick after a 14 day stint with Peter Twist?
(3) All of this agility work in the off season places a lot of wear and tear on joints and many drills teach poor technique…I find a game of Doctor ball to be a better form of training then using cones.
(4) Agility tests are tests. Many coaches are against them or for them. I feel that some programs train for them and get great scores but then some athletes suck in the NFL. I feel that the tests should be done frequently at all DI schools to ensure that athletes learn the tests. Some athletes score poorly because they are not familar with them. This will show BASIC abilty to move and change direction. Reading and reacting are other skills and tracking is vital as well.
Good points Clemson. Too many coaches and athletes try to make too much of these tests and apparatuses that show or are supposed to improve an athletes agility. If there’s not a negative transfer, sometimes you just have to let these coaches go. I normally do my best to ignore others and just do my best to make my athletes the best!! I get sick of criticizing others so much, not my style (except the occasional rant on jeff madden!!). Mike Boyle has said that when he is training athletes for a combine or test, he trains them for that combine or test, and when it’s done he goes right back to training them for their sport. One has very little to do with the other.
Not to many 5.1 recievers in the league…
What mechanics can be improved for soccer and football to improve technique?
I guess what this discussion needs is a good working definition of agility, as it relates to high performance sports (particularly team sports). Any takers out there?
Here’s a start:
1 - Ability to accelerate quickly.
2 - Ability to deceleration quickly.
3 - Ability to change direction quickly (1 and 2 combined).
4 - Ability to undertake movements 1 to 3 under control and within the context of the sport/position being played.
Obviously, agility means different things for different sports, such as:
A. Basketball
- Post players need quick movements - horizontal and vertical - but also the strength to undertake these moves while absorbing or dishing out physical contact
- Perimeter players need good lateral shuffling speed, as well as good acceleration for one-on-one moves and transition play
B. Football
- Offensive linemen
- Defensive linemen
- Quarterback
- Running backs and fullbacks
- Linebackers
- Receivers
- Special teams
C. Soccer
- Goalies
- Defenders
- Midfielders
- Forwards
Others???
Anyways, perhaps others can help to finish out this list. I only wanted to start some discussion, and don’t have the time to finish this list up at this time. Feedback is appreciated.
Clemson, how do you play Doctor ball. It doesn’t have to do with “You show me yours and I’ll show you mine does it?” Seriously how do you play?
the outward display of one’s neuromuscular coordination. The combination of motor skills to “put it all together”. This definition allows for flexibility in the word’s use rather than trying to make it “sport specific”.
Game Speed …
Just a few other elements (off the top of my head) to consider …
-
Anticicpation
This is essentially the intelligence of the player - how capable is the player of anticipating what is about to happen next? Can they start to move in a direction or prepare for a certain course of events and therefore put themselves in an advategeous postion? This is why great but older players can sometimes seem ‘faster’ than younger more energetic players - they use their experience to a greater advantage and captialise on this. -
Reaction
Unlike the first piont - this is essentailly the ability to react in the most positive manner to a situation as it unfolds - a breaking ball, a deflection of a back board, rim or post or perhaps how a player reacts to a turn over they commit etc. Spped of reaction. -
Acceleration
Mainataining top speed is not a real issue in many team sports - but acceleration and starting strength is. -
Decceleration
-
Eccentic and Isometric strength
Touched on by Number2 above and ColCoolJ and others in previous posts about Jay Schroeders training - the ability to absorb forces and transfer strength is critical in Game sports where absorbtion and exertion change in direction is necessary. Isomteric strengthing at extreme ROMs. -
Relaxation at speed
The ability to relax antagonistics while exerting forces again assists in reducing muscluar tension that must be overcome. This mental and physical relaxation assists in the reduction of stresses that permits clear decision making and fast muscular control. -
Flexibility
-
Balance
Further Thoughts on Game Agility …
I’m intrigued by this debate and I’ll just throw a few thoughts out there following on Number Twos suggestions and perhaps we can debate this further … I haven’t completed a conclusive list but here’s what I’ve come up with … I think Charlie has worked with some NFL and NHF athletes so perhaps he can (contrdict or critique) some of these …
I’d have to agree whoe heartedly with Clemson on the point abut DB’s transformation- lets keep it in context as as regard agility tests - they’re as relevant IMO as the 40 yard (- which IMO only assesses aspects of 2.a below) … anyway moving on.
I think that the first key basic question raised was by Clemson and Number Two
What is agility (as relates to Game Sport)?
The simplest basic defeinition I can come up with is that-
Agility is the ability of an athlete to change their travelling direction in the fastest possible time in response to stimuli.
The 2 distinct aspects of this definition are the (1) Stimuli and the (2) Athlete’s reaction to it.
1. The Stimulus Components
These are the elements related to the athletes mastery of the game, some of which I metioned above.
The ability to ‘read’ and anticipate a game.
Their mental reaction to an event as it actually occurs.
Vision - peripheral etc. - First of all can the man see?
Anticipation,
Reaction,
These are essentally mental skills - often related to the sporting intelligence and experience of the athlete.
These are best trained by playing the game and many teams whose trainers use excessive tests (as described by Clemson above) can be clearly identified by posessing good single-line speed capabilities and overall fitness - but very poor reaction and anticipation skills due to excessive training with very little ‘game-training’ or match practice.
2. The Athletes Physical Ability
Once more I would break these into two basic elements (A) the Management of Linear Forces and the (B) Overal Athletic Control.
i Management of Linear Forces [/i]
Encompas the elements Number Two listed such as the fundamental basics of the:
Ability to accelerate quickly.
Ability to deceleration quickly.
And as he points out these are essentially the broad elemets making up the “ability to change direction quickly (1 and 2 combined)”.
Obviously - all these can further be broken down to ‘the ability to exert, asborb force’ and further again to basic exercises like speed-strength movements such as ‘squat’ etc.
i Overal Athletic Control[/i]
Which manages the aspets such as balance and absorbtion of outside forces.
Body Compostiion (this is relevant to the Sport) - are they strong enough for the sport requirments
Overall Bodily Control - e.g how low can the athlete drop their COG as they asborb a hit etc.,
Flexibility
Muscle tone and joint stability.
Core Strength
Balance
Equipment management - ability to manage the sporting elements simultaneously - e.g. can you hold THE DAMN BALL and run?
So in Summary …
Agility is the ability of an athlete to change their travelling direction in the fastest possible time in response to stimuli.
1. The stimulus Components
Vision
Anticipate
React
2. The Athletes Physical Ability
2.A Management of Linear Forces
Ability to Accelerate quickly
Ability to Deceleration quickly
2.B Overal Athletic Control
Body Compostiion
Overall Body Control
Flexibility
Muscle tone and joint stability.
Core Strength
Balance
Equipment management
Thoughts Guys …?
A few thoughts on this whole topic. First, the game itself provides plenty of “specificity”, so, if your objective is to make all your training specific, then have NO OFF-SEASON. After all, simulated competition is like simulated sex- not your first choice!
The off season is the time to advance strength, speed, and the other necessary physical qualities, through an organized development plan, to be incorporated into skill-work later, not by doing more of the same thing in a different way.
I’m sick and tired of hearing cheers for lecturers who present these idiotic ideas as infotainment for the multitudes of athletic training bottom-feeders!
The biggest clown in this “Circus Moronicus”, had his chance to work in this field- for real, and the result was the physical DEVASTATION of the whole team! Of course, once the team management grasped the magnitude of the injury situation, they asked me to review the program. What a shambles!
Not long after my report was submitted, this “Guru” suddenly found himself with more time on his hands for the lecture circuit, to present his “new and improved” training methods to others.
The point is use a case study here. What I am sick of is not the bashing since that forces people to dig down and decide what is wrong and what works.
My feelings after working with a few athletes that needed some agility is that they lacked the following.
-
Moves.
-
Needed strength qualities.
what I mean about moves is that if you grow up poor and play the sport all day you tend to pick up moves from watching others and trying to do them. Some do it rather naturally and others have to practice in their bedroom after getting tackled or have someone break their ankles in hoops. Watching some great athletes play their are a few classic “moves” that people do. Jukes, stutter steps, cuts, it all is about applying force and this is hard to do in slow motion. Doing it faster does result in having your offseason become longer but if you are a private conditioning coach you can keep guys fresh by recovery methods and a reduction of volume.
What I see is nobody improving athletes in this area generally…most comments on “off season” are bulking up but very few talk about someone getting more agile.
That’s a very good point about moves. I always wondered about if running backs work in the off-season work on specific moves on their own, just did them naturally in the flow of the game, or had coaches going over possibilities with them. Moves IMO are the most important part of agility for football and basketball players on offense. Drill them enough and they’re second nature. Makes a difference in YAC, etc.
Actually if a player can just a solid crossover in football and basketball that can often be enough as they can have variations on it.
I don’t know if this has to do with hip mobility, but good moves always have the athletes upper body getting parallel in the steep angle of the jab leg coming out of the break.
I hope that the coach goes by the athlete’s field performacne, and not by a test that may or may not mean anything. Sometimes coaches are taken with how pretty a player looks in the weight room or on a stopwatch.
can you really teach a guy moves? in football i think either a player has them or they don’t.
basketball is a different story.
i would add to that, stop and start ability (hesitation step) in a straight line.