i am trying to train to break 2 minutes in the 800.right now i have been doing lots of strength and hypertrophy training, but i want to get a specific strength workout and speed workout to help me achieve my goals.I have good endurance, but am lacking greatly in speed.Here are my stats
Height-5’9-10"
Weight-165(working on getting down to 155)
Full Squat 225lbs
200 meter-27.2 seconds
400 meter-59.4 seconds
800 meter-2:16
1600 meter-5:15
please help me with a specific strength work and track work emphasising speed.I know i need to get my 400 down to around 53 at least to break 2 minutes.
Your speed is lacking like you said. That alone will greatly improve your 800 if you can run at least 53; faster 400 the better! Check out some threads by Palmtag, he’s the resident 800m man around here it seems like! There a few threads around too. Search my man!
[QUOTE=dash50]i am trying to train to break 2 minutes in the 800.right now i have been doing lots of strength and hypertrophy training, but i want to get a specific strength workout and speed workout to help me achieve my goals.I have good endurance, but am lacking greatly in speed.Here are my stats
Height-5’9-10"
Weight-165(working on getting down to 155)
Full Squat 225lbs
200 meter-27.2 seconds
400 meter-59.4 seconds
800 meter-2:16
1600 meter-5:15please help me with a specific strength work and track work emphasising speed.I know i need to get my 400 down to around 53 at least to break 2 minutes[/QUOTE/
You need to work on your endurance as much as your speed - that is a proportionaly greater weakness.
You should be able to run something like 2 X 400 PB + 8 secs for 800, giving you 2.08. Lack of endurance is leaving you 8 secs behind that.
5.15 for 1 mile is very slow in comparison to a 2 min 800m time.
I know a guy that runs 2.01 and does 4.15 for 1500m. His 400 is 57 secs - but he has an excellent endurance background. So I don`t think you need to get your 400 as low as 53.
What is a typical training week for you in winter and then closer to competition ? Maybe I can make some suggestions.
i don’t want to increase my 800 by increaseing my endurance, i want to do it by increasing my speed.I am in college and doing intramural track and i only have 2 meets.After that, basketball comes, and i want to train for speed so it will also help my basketball.And, when i ran that 5:15, i did not even try the last 3 hundred meters.If i had given it my all, i would have been around 5:05.
The energy component of an 800 is a bit more aerobic than anaerobic, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, and there are people that have run a fast 800 from the sprint side. Some comments that Charlie made quite some time ago (probably in either the archives or the forum review somewhere):
In doing training from the sprint side, you might try something like this:
Mon: overdistance–3X10X100 85% 800 speed rest 30 sec/5 min
Tues: tempo 3K-4K
Wed: Race pace–300 up to 600-700 @ goal pace (increase length as you can run on pace)
Thu: tempo 3K-4K
Fri: 95%+ speed 4 X 80-120 (SE for 100m) rests 10-20 min
The 3X10X100 is NOT tempo. This is a fairly common workout type for 800 and is run at overdistance pace (85% speed) or faster, so you would be trying to do sets of 10X100 in 15-17 sec with 30 sec recovery. If you are able to maintain pace, you can also do 3 X 1000-1200 with 10-15 minute rest.
I’m not showing weights because they aren’t as important for 800 as they are for 60-400. If you’re going to do them, you would do them on tempo days.
About the 2 X 400 + 8 sec (4 sec/lap) conversion from 400 to 800… This is true if your name is Sebastian Coe. It’s also true for endurance-trained runners with slow 400 times, but it doesn’t work for many people. For most endurance trained runners, 800 pace is about 10% slower than 400 pace (5-6 sec/lap), and for sprinters it’s more like 15% slower (often 7-8 sec/lap). Look up Juantorena’s 400 and 800 PRs and you’ll get the point. People are different, but you’re going to need sub-55 400 speed to run 2:00, unless you’re a distance runner.
will this work.I want to improve my 400/800, but i want to increase my vert for basketball too.I have greatly reduce the volume of weights and increased the running significantly
Day 1
40yd sprints-4 min rest
flying 30’s-4 min rest
Depth Jumps-sets of 3-low box-2 min rest
Box Squat 63 50%
Box Squat-work up to max single for day
Full Squat-sets of 3 reps
S/L Back Extensions-36-8
Day 2
4*400-(70-75 seconds-mile pace)-rest 2 min-reduce rest every week
Bench Press-work up to 5 rep max
Pullups-sets of 5
Day 3
6200-(28-30seconds-800 pace)-rest 2 min-reduce rest every week
2400-(60-65 seconds)-5 min rest
Day 4
20yd sprint-5lb weight belt
40yd sprint-5lb weight belt
Depth Drops-sets of 3
Stiff-Leg Deadlift 6*3 50%
Deadlift-work up to max single for day
Split Squat-sets of 3 reps
S/L Back Extensions-3 *6-8
Day 5
8*100 meters-(13-15 seconds-400 pace)
Dips-sets of 5
Seated Rows-sets of 5
I have never seen an 800 programme with such low mileage.
High mileage approach (Lyddiard) for Peter Snell etc.
> 80-100miles per week. Periodisation of hills, then speed work whilst still retaining reasonable mileage.
Low mileage approach. Seb Coe at age 18 covered 30-50 miles per week in winter. More like 20-40 miles per week in summer with the fastest work.
Juantorena did 10K training runs.
I do not know of a single club or international runner using the approach you suggest.
I can understand that 800 is not your focus and will actually detract from your other events and sports.
Hence higher mileage work is not your priority.
It will be interesting to see how it goes - hopefully it will work out for you.
i will also be doing some biking of around 5 miles 2 days a week.I don’t do a lot of miles, because it hurts my speed and explosiveness for basketball, and i have a slight case of osgood-schlatters disease and running anything over a mile starts to agrivate it after a few days.
very doubtfull sub 2min will happen. perhaps try for sub 2.10. or try out for the 400m. You will either have a slow 1st 600m and sprint the last 200m, or a fast 1st 400m, struggle the next 200m then jog the last 200m.
800m is not something you can play with and expect half decient times from unless you are already able to run that distance. Comming for a 2;16, breaking 2;10 itself will be enough of a struggle for you, unless you got 6mnths till that race and you start training correctly.
If your up against sub 2min runners in your race, expect the lactic monkey to jump on your back around 600m - if your up with them.
your 4x400m’s, work up to doing 8-10
200’s, work up to doing 10
do some max speed 300’s with 20m active rec. 4off
do 3x400 max speed with 20min active rec
A 5klm once per fortnight, done hard. But all other long runs can be done Tempo for better o2 training.
Speed one day
Tempo the next
Speed next
tempo next still applies
without doing some volume, and hard lactic work, dont expect sub 2. its a hard road if you are only at 2;16 now.
The best thing to do at this point would be to increase your aerobic threshold. The stronger you can get in that one department the better at this point. Your speed, and speed endurance right now aren’t that impressive, and frankly, you’re not going to loose much of it by doing a distance-oriented workout or two during your week, but it will help you greatly, both on the court (believe it or not being able to fast break in both directions back-to-back is a great asset to your team) and on the track.
But just by doing a brisk couple 5-8 milers (35-60 mins) during your week isn’t going to dump your 800m time by those 16 seconds you want. You’ll scrape off a hefty 5-6 seconds just by getting stronger on the aerobic capacity, but these aerobic runs will help you the most in your more 800m specific work. You’ll recover faster, and get tired slower so you’ll be able to do harder intervals.
Basically just keep this in mind: Always warm up lengthily 10-15 minutes of running (not jogging) before and after your workouts, unless your workout is a steady run.
For your steady runs: do them quickly, and without stop. 7:00-7:20. Go as far as you can at that pace +10mins. So if you can hold 7:00-7:20 for 25 mins then run for 35 mins and hold on for dear life the last 10 mins, etc.