400m help!

The Forums Ask Us.
1

Looking for a little guidance.
Last year my daughter (400m runner/hurdler) was a junior in college and had her best year of track. She was lucky enough to have a GA for one season that knew what he was doing, and not only dropped her 400m time from a previous best of 59.8 to 58.4 last season, but also guided her to the ncaa d3 nationals in the 400m hurdles with a time of 61.8. She had never run hurdles in her life until last year.

Well, he did so well as a GA, especially when he impressed other coaches that were telling him that my daughter would never make to nationals given her previous years 400m times, and having never run hurdles; that he was offered a head coaching position at another school which he accepted. The head coach was also offered a better coaching position, and left for another school as well.

New coach was hired and since she goes to school in a colder climate, he has the philosphy that he does not believe in outdoor workouts until outdoor season. So, they run one day a week in the gym, and the rest of the week consists of circuit workouts, and lifting. Last year, they worked outside through the cold most days, and was only in the gym 5-6 times the whole season.

So far this season, after running two indoor meets, her 200m time is approx 1-sec slower than where she was last year at this time, her 300m time is .9-sec slower, and her 400m time is 2-sec slower. I’m not a genius, but I do not know how you can train in a gym and expect to get very good results.

She has lifted consistantly throughout the offseason, and is devastated since this is her last season. They do not have the luxury of an indoor track, but there have been many days when it has been wam enought to go outside. The new coach insists that it is more important to train at the same time every day even if it means staying inside until March. (They only have access to the gym at 6:00am in the morning). She wants to train on her own, and has asked me for workouts. I can give her extensive temp, intensive temp, and speed endurance workouts, but I am not sure as to how much of each she should be doing at this point. I’m also a h.s. soccer coach, and I have a conditioning program for my players, but she is much more advanced than the h.s. girl’s I work with.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

j

2

Where are you located? If the weather isn’t too bad, perhaps a tempo session twice a week discretely would help- it must be extensive to be sure it doesn’t interfere with the other work being assigned beyond your control. How is her weight? Has it maintained or has it gone up? Do you have examples of tempo sessions from last year you can post?

3

Thank you for getting back so quickly. We are located in Ohio. She is obsessive about lifting and watching her weight, and is pretty vain about that. So, I’m pretty confident that she has not gained an ounce. I do not know exactly what she did last year, but she may remember some of the workouts that they did.

I know he used to give her a specific time to hit, which she would make every effort to do. She really believed in him, and he of her, which goes a long way mentally. I am friends with a soccer coach who also owns an indoor soccer facility not too far from her school, which has a 200m indoor track. So, on days when it really is too cold to be outside, we can train there. Would it be safe to convert one of the extensive temp workouts to a intensive workout after a week or so while they are still in the gym?

thanks so much.

4

[QUOTE=;][/QUOTE]
Are everyone’s times going up, or is your daughter an exception?

If everyone’s are going up, does the coach know this, or does nothing before this year exist to him?

If everyone’s are going up, and the coach knows this, does he have an explanation for why everything will be OK in the end?

5

Are everyone’s times going up, or is your daughter an exception?

If everyone’s are going up, does the coach know this, or does nothing before this year exist to him?

If everyone’s are going up, and the coach knows this, does he have an explanation for why everything will be OK in the end?

6

I hesitate to stick my nose into anything Charlie offers his advice on - and I couldn’t comment on the issues of training indoors - but in case you were looking for some general ideas and discussion on training for the 400m the following link will take you to a summary version of War & Peace, err, the (dreaded) “lactate threshhold” thread which deals exclusively with one lap wonders. :slight_smile:

http://www.charliefrancis.com/commun...d.php?p=118382

hmm, just tried it and hasn’t linked up for me (Pindaman help!!)

Strange, the link posted by Pindaman on page 113 of the threshold thread works perfectly. My IT IQ is about zero, so if you’re interested, go to p113 of the “lactate threshold” thread in the Fundamentals section.

7

Sorry about the duplicate post. It’s a miracle I can use my Blackberry at all.

8

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?p=118382

9

Thanks. Your link works perfectly :confused:

10

To MSO:

Thank you for the link. I will take a good hard look at it.
In answer to you questions. Yes, the whole team has taken a nose dive.
There is a sophomore girl on the team, who last year was just a step behind my daughter. Last week she ran a 68 and some change, and came off the track crying as did my daughter. The 100/200 sprinters that were running high 27’s indoor last year at this time, both ran in the 30’s. It’s sad and painful to watch, and it’s not just the woman. The men are doing equally bad. The only reason, I think my daughter is somewhat close to where she needs to be, is because she lifts and trains on her own during the offseason. Someone overheard the coach say at the meet, that the reason everyone is doing so bad, is because they are just not trying. Believe me, it killed my daughter to lose to two girls that she consistantly beat last season, so I’m pretty sure she was trying. His reason for their poor performance makes about as much sense as his workouts. I hate to be a critic, especially me being a soccer coach, I know how much crap you have to take from parent’s, etc, but at the same time there needs to be accountability for the job. It’s very frustrating to know that when it comes to track, even at this college level, AD’s just do not really care who they hire, but instead they just hire anyone to fill the job.

Still not sure if it would be ok to mix in some intensive temp or speed endurance workouts sometime before the indoor league meet at the end of Feb?

Thanks for your help.

11

I think you are safer to stay with extensive for at least a few weeks but if she feels no conflict with her other work, perhaps you can try something along the intensive tempo lines that she is familiar with from last year once a week.

12

Thanks Charlie, that is what we will do. Also, I have been reading through the lactate threshold thread, until my head started to spin. I made lots of notes though, and will finish it up in the next few days.

Am I correct that the target for extensive tempo should not exceed 75%?

j

13

Yes, this is correct. Although most people -here in the forum at least- refer to this percentage as a rough guideline. A 70% or 65% could also work perfectly OK (e.g., depending on physical state on the day, the surface, etc). A better reference perhaps to start you with is to finish the session with the last drill being equally fast -if not a bit faster sometimes- as the first ones, maintaining a relaxed running form, i.e., no tightness or anything.

14

I had the same problem with you at first. I then clicked on the original link and copied it here directly from the address bar… :confused:

15

Thank you for the explanation, that makes sense to me. I was going to give her the 8x200 w/2min rest. Would that be a good starting workout? Should we try to keep the total workout between 1000m-1500m for a 400 runner. Also, would it hurt to add some accelerations into the warm up?

thanks again.

j

16

You can add accels to the warm-up and the key is that she is able to finish the 200s session at the pace she started with- whatever that might be- up to a max speed of 75% of best time.

17

I know this is a stupid question, but I just want to make sure I do not make a mistake. The 75% is based on her current best time, not what she was running last season, correct?

Thanks to everyone for all of your help! I know I will have other questions once we get a few workouts knocked out.

j

18

I would go with the current, yes. Otherwise, it may turn out to be a Speed/Special Endurance session.

19

allowing for the type of surface and conditions.

20

We finished up the first session without any problems today. My daughter brought a teammate to run with, who is also a 400m girl. Both agreed, that this was the first practice since the season started, that felt like a real workout. Both finished the session pretty easily though, and finished all eight a little better than their projected times. They both said the last two were a little tough, but not terrible.

The surface is decent, but the track is only 160m, so the curves are pretty tight. We begin on the straight and end on the straight. That way their only running two curves.

They told me that this was only the third running workout that they have done since winter break. The other two workouts were the two indoor meets that they competed in. The coach has a pool workout scheduled for Thursday, so we scheduled another tempo workout for Thursday evening.

There happened to be a former female 400m hurdler from Purdue at the track, that was holding a hurdle session for some middle school athletes. She said that when she trained at Purdue she would run a 5K prior to every workout. That sounds like a lot of mileage to me, but she said she ran the 400hurdles in 58.3 and her best 400m open was a 53. She also ran the 800m in her senior year of college. I guess I can’t argue with success. Has anyone ever heard of putting that many miles in before a workout? She said the 5K was an easy jog though.

Any suggestions besides repeating the 8x200 w/2m rest?

Thanks,

j

j