Hey what do you folks think about doubling the 400 and 200?
Can this be an non-optimal duo or not?
re: the 400 is usualy completed around 30min before the 200 no? So the 400 being so taxing, it seems difficult to plan for the double.
Last year at state meet Joe won the double logging a PR in the 400 and a slow time that won the 200 anyway and against fresh 100m runners - their 100 being at the earlier part of the meet. This year we have a hot 100m runner that will be fresh for the 200 while we are limping to the 200 start.
damn the 400 is only 30 min. before the 200? Over here, the 400 is one of the first events (right before the 100m), and the 200 is one of the last (right before the 3000m, then 4x400)…
I’d say give it a go, your kid’s a stud if he can double with only 30 min. rest…
Over here the 400 is hours before the 200 however personally and with my experiance with many athletes the 400/200 double is veryyy difficult. The 400 seems to really take something out of your legs.
Two summers ago at a meet I had gone 49.9 followed by a 22.7 200 90 mins later. And the next week I went 21.8 in the 200 fresh. A few weeks later at the same meet (it was a twighlight series) I went 50.2 and 22.2. Still not close to as fast as I coulda have ran it fresh or perhpas coming off the 100.
It can be done but it take a lot of mental conditioning. A kid on my team does it. hes ranked 1st in the state in both (sub 50 400, sub 23 200. which both are good for the area). They are about 30 min to an hour apart from each other AND he runs 4x100 and 4x400. So try it out. if you have good results keep it up, if not pick on or the other
thanks guys,
last year Joe hit a PR 49.63fat for first and 22.93fat for first; he did 21.90fat on trials night (more recovery time).
this year he is up against a 22.fat runner.
-and we’re recovering from hamstring…
oh well. we’re going for it.
how old is joe? take a look at where he stands seeding wise. If hes comming off of a hamstring injury chances are he wont be able to run both races as well as he has. so have him run the one that he would place higher in. best of luck to you this season
Man, 400/200 double… sheeshe that’s tough. I have to run the 400/800/4x400 double next thursday, that should be brutal. I remember, though, my freshmen year I ran the 400/800/200/4x400 With about 25-30 minutes rest between each race. My times kind of plummeted after my 400: 53.2 PR, 2:12.50 PR, 24.76 NOT A PR!, 54.4 relay leg… Man, why do I remember this stuff?
Oh yeah, that’s right. Heh, this thread’s about joe… Good luck to Joe! The 400 will be a lot more demanding on Joe, considering that he hasn’t had the solid training weeks. Even if he is “up to speed” and can run a blistering quarter, the conditioning won’t be there to back it up with power 200. Point in Case: Our top distance runner, who is capeable of a 50.3 400, has been out for the past couple of weeks b/c of illness. He can run a good mile 4:22ish, but he hasn’t broken 53 in the 4x4 this year. THe reason, I think, is because he has never ran a fresh 400. The guy’s legs just die after 1 race because he’s got no conditioning.
From a coach’s viewpoint: Normally I would say - go for the 200 AND 400 … while the athlete can handle it (read: for young athletes, like Joe!) I have a junior athlete who doubled up at the Junior Nationals - 47,24 and 21,53 … both PB’s. This was after the heat and SF of the 400m on the first day; the final of the 400m AND heat, SF, final of the 200m AND heat and final of the 4 x 100m relay (gold medal) the second day.
With Joe’s history of the hamstring injury and the rehab - I would recommend to go for ONE only this year. (400m?)
To run the 200m AND the 400m would put a lot of pressure on him - physically and mentally. Especially with the “stupid” programme - only 30’ between the two finals! Furthermore - for his own self-confidence sake. Do not let him run against stiff and fresh competition in the 200m.
Joe knows that he had a backlog in his training, and he is sensible enough (from your posts!) to realize that he could take both NEXT year! AND qualify for World Juniors in Beijing.
Maybe you’re right SC,
I think I’ll let him run the double on trials night where there is over an hour between events (400/200) - then on finals nite when only 30 min. check the roster and if there are/is fast, fresh 100/200 guy/s, scratch and just focus on winning the 400m.
Joe is a senior; last chance for state glory… I hope he cntinues on to usatf this year, but if not, hope he gets to a junior college program in Sacramento.
two years ago a kid on my team tripled at our championship race, he won the 100 in 10.93 the 200 in 21.xx and the 400 in 48.xx, his 400 final was 15 minutes before his 200 final :eek: he ran a 21.17 and a 47.10 at the JOs a few years back, real talented.
right on Cortese, I hope he decides t go to school next year; his mom lives in Sacto. He needs to get his credits at a JC…
Thnking about the double, I guess we will play it by ear for finals nite, if he q’s on trials.
I believe he will probably be like that race horse who digs deep at the sign of competition on his home turf.
I would usually suggest running both. I think running the 400 earlier in the meet actually helps your 200m. The only problem in our state is that the 200 is right before the 4x4. Most coaches will almost always put that guy on the 4x4 before they put him or he in the 200m. Even if that athlete can do well in the state meet.
After the 400m, we have the 300hdl, 1600m, and then the 200m. So we probably have half the time to rest that you guys and most other states have. But people do it every year. During your typical invite, you would get maybe 3-5min to rest because of the 300hdl, then you would get another 10-15min because of the 1600m. So realistically we’re talking about 20min avg.
At our state meet you would get a little extra rest because there are two classes. So each event has 2 heats each. But you would still get no more than 30min. It’s never seemed to be a problem here, cuz people do the double all the time. The state record holder for the 400m in our state won the 100-200-400 3 years in a row.
Usually the guy that wins the 400m in our state doesn’t win the 200, but when he runs the 200m, he doesn’t die from having run the 400 earlier. Example being in 2002. The state champ in the 400, won with a 47.8. He came back later ad got 2nd in the 200 with a 21.6 I believe.
In the end no matter how far apart the two races are, it won’t matter if you aren’t in the condition to do both. There are guys who can’t double in the 100/200 cuz they are just out of shape. Those 2 races are more than an hour apart in our state.
best of luck to you this season