Are you positive it was actually 300 meters?
I never seen something like that. When you ran that 34 what was your best 200 in a meet and what were your 150’s in training? To run 34.8 and come back in 15 seconds is a sub 50.
Ok,
So here’s the calc I usually do. If my 300-300 results are within that 1 sec time limit, I consider my lactate tolerance to be well formed.
At this point I would add 1.3-1.8 seconds to my 100m PB and add that to my 300m time.
So, If I ran a 36sec 300 and my 100m PB is 11.0sec, I would expect to come through the 400m in about 48.3-48.8.
It’ fairly accurate for elite level 400m runners also. For instance, MJ’s 400m from the 99WCs:
300: 31.8
100m PB: 10.09 (WIKI)
10.09+1.3= 11.39s
31.8+11.39= 43.19s
His actual time of coarse was the WR of 43.18s…but hey it’s a small margin of error for a fairly simple timing model.
We use the 100m PB as a measure of the actual capability an athlete would be able to run the 100m (the given athletes PB).
We use the scale of 1.3-1.8 to determine the variability of lactate buffering capabilities among the athlete. Elite athletes may get as low as 1.3-1.5 and novice athletes may get as high as 2.0.
This method of coarse only works with that 300m foundation we were talking about of hitting the 2x300m @95% and 3min RI within 1 second of each other.
I still have more testing to do on it, but it has worked well for me.
EXAMPLE#2
Here’s another example. Johnny runs a 10.8 hand timed 100m. His hand timed 300m PB is 39 seconds. He wants to run 47seconds in the 400m. Is this a realistic goal?
10.8+(1.3 to 1.8)=12.1 to 12.6s
39+(12.1-12.6)=51.1-51.6s
This mearly states that Johnny has a descent 100m time, but neither his 100m time nor his 300m time are looking to support that 47s he wants.
With his current speed and lactate tolerance he can expect a 51-52 hand-timed performance.
His 39 sec 300m is piss poor and can easily be lowered, however, if his 100m speed does not improve, he will have to lower his 300m hand to a 35 to run a 47s 400m.
Hope this helps…
Seems interesting!
your 2x300m with 3mins - as long as they are within 1 second of each other? and you then take the avg of those 2? runs?
ie 36, 37 = 36.5 and then add 100 time +1.3-1.5
Should the 100m time be your current form? rather thant your PB?
Same thing happened in hs. I beat the state 400m champ indoors for 300 yards. Then absolutely tanked in the 400m outdoors, I think I placed third in the state, I just gave up when I saw him pass me. It was dissapointing because I had run 50.03 indoors that year (my only year of hs track). And then about the same time the first meet outdoors…cold weather. Then I got progressively slower. And my relay splits were 50, but with no competition.
The people that were running my times indoors were splitting out at 47 outdoors. I would keep up pace for about 350 outdoors then fall off (and I did pace myself).
When I went to college my 300m times improved but I did not run the 400m dash. If I get back in shape…(36-23-17) 6mins rest @ 85-90%, I will run a quarter just for fun. I actually did run the quarter after my huge lay off and still hit 52. 
The last straight though I could not lift my legs. I was running it off of 4 SE workouts.
I dunno maybe I’ll never run fast again ever. Im still debating on whether my body can even handle sprinting or anything athletic. I just don’t know.
velocegatto, correct me if im wrong:-
NO - it looks like your PB 300m time, add that to your Pb 100m + 1.3-1.8s.
the lactate readyness test is just that, a test - ie, if your pb is 35sec 300m, then your looking to run your efforts in
36.75 1st rep to 37.75 2nd rep with the 3min recovery.
also - if your 300m pb really sucks and your lactate tests are like basically the same - showing high lactate tollarance - then you need some faster max 300m PB’s.
Hi guys,
Glad you see the model as being a bit helpful. I try to attach numbers to distances so I can get an idea of what is required. My goal for this year is a 47s 400m, but I have never gone sub 50 yet. My PB is 51.26.
We will see how I can use this model to adapt to my training this year.
Los:
Yes you would average your 300m times to be more accurate.
Either your 100m PB or current form can be used for the formula. Obviously, your current form will depict a more accurate time, but your 100m PB would give an idea of what is possible.
Now, I’d like to highlight that very recently most fast 100m and 200m times have been achieved by athletes known to include 300s and 400s frequently in training.
Asafa Powell, Usain Bolt, Spearman, and Tyson Gay are all making use of the 400m to gain at the 100m distance. For the longest time I was opposed to this theory.
The more I train, the more I realize that more 400m strength transfers well to my 100s, especially when there are multiple heats involved.
It’s more biochemically related than neurological I believe. Meaning that the high lactate levels positively effect max power output for sprinting if…and only if…proper rest is allowed prior to racing shorter distances. Otherwise your times will just get worse.
Also, I particularly notice this with taller sprinters. I am 6’1" myself and never was a good starter. However, when my 400m strength got better, I was starting to consistently get high 3.8s to mid 3.9s in my 30m hand times.
I will be testing a lot of stuff this year. I will possibly start a thread on it if there is enough demand:)
Hi guys,
Glad you see the model as being a bit helpful. I try to attach numbers to distances so I can get an idea of what is required. My goal for this year is a 47s 400m, but I have never gone sub 50 yet. My PB is 51.26.
We will see how I can use this model to adapt to my training this year.
Los:
Yes you would average your 300m times to be more accurate.
Either your 100m PB or current form can be used for the formula. Obviously, your current form will depict a more accurate time, but your 100m PB would give an idea of what is possible.
Bold:
Yes the 300m times are what we are using to determine lactate competence. Someone out of shape will have times that can differ by A LOT. I would say it’s not even realistic for a person to start talking about goals for the 400m unless they can achieve this 1sec differential at 300m.
Now, I’d like to highlight that very recently most fast 100m and 200m times have been achieved by athletes known to include 300s and 400s frequently in training.
Asafa Powell, Usain Bolt, Spearman, and Tyson Gay are all making use of the 400m to gain at the 100m distance. For the longest time I was opposed to this theory.
The more I train, the more I realize that more 400m strength transfers well to my 100s, especially when there are multiple heats involved.
It’s more biochemically related than neurological I believe. Meaning that the high lactate levels positively effect max power output for sprinting if…and only if…proper rest is allowed prior to racing shorter distances. Otherwise your times will just get worse.
Also, I particularly notice this with taller sprinters. I am 6’1" myself and never was a good starter. However, when my 400m strength got better, I was starting to consistently get high 3.8s to mid 3.9s in my 30m hand times.
I will be testing a lot of stuff this year. I will possibly start a thread on it if there is enough demand:)
Sorry, but I am still confused: for this formula, do you use your PB 300 or the ave 300 in your
2 X 300 @95% with 3 min rest test?
Do you think your formula applies to females? To high-schoolers?
yes please.
Vedette,
the way I read (and Velocegatto please correct me if I am wrong) it is average of 2 x 300 @ 95% of 300m PB or SB but to have any relevance they must be within 1 sec of each other and also be within 95% of 300m PB or SB. If either of these isn’t achieved then it doesn’t count.
While interesting I think we need to appreciate it is only a predictor and like all such things other factors come into play and nothing counts for running a 400m race to get a true picture.
Also (and most importantly) don’t forget to powder the coyones. Especially in the summer.
Guy
Velocegatto,
Interesting theory. Where is the 2x300m @95% and 3min RI test derived from?
Seems to hard though:
2x300m at 95% with 3 minutes rest is a hefty workout.
If you run 51.2 e what type of 300 m workouts are doing, using this protocol.
How hard do you find these workouts. Seems pretty intense to me?
Just wondering.
I’m not sure if 2x300m@95% with 3 mins recovery is possible for any athlete who is well suited to run a fast 400m (high percentage of fast twitch fibers).
Jeremy Wariner managed to do 2x350 with 5 mins recovery in 40.09 and 41.60 prior to the World Championships in Osaka where he ran 43.45.
The 40.09 would roughly equate to 93% of what he would be have been hitting the 350m mark at during the 43.45 performance and the 41.60 represented a drop off to just below 90% on the second run. Obviously 350m is a lot more stressful than 300m but he was given 5 minutes recovery for those yet was still not able to get close to 2x@95% on those runs.
SMTC (and John Smith) have used a workout of 3X350 >95% effort with 3 min recovery. It was 3X400 but too many people were throwing up on the track. Starts with 350s or 400s with longer rest, then as you get closer to comp, the rest is cut short.
I’ve got my doubts that just going to 300 is going to give the lactate tolerance effect that 350-400 will.
As far as those 400’s for 100m performance, I’m wondering about that too. I’d be curious to see what Charlie feels about this in a s-l program if you have Charlie’s emphasis on alactic capacity work but you have 5-4-3, 4-3-2, 3-2-1 breakdowns early in the program, well away from comp. Is there an advantage (or a disadvantage) to doing this in GPP?
Charlie, any thoughts?
Hi Guys,
Believe it or not this formula was just something I notice when I was playing around with numbers and noticing some trends when it came to predicting my form. It wasn’t taken from any scientific articles or anything of the sort.
I started to notice that it didn’t apply to only me and started using it with a couple of athletes I trained. It proved to be fairly accurate. In fact, I had a few athletes NEVER run 400s during practices (only 300s and 350s) and the formula still was extremely accurate going out to 400.
Yes, the 2x300m workout is a beast of a workout…worse yet is a 3x300 and 3min RI.
However, if you have a well developed lactate capacity, you will notice that in the space of about 3-5 such workouts you will begin to develop a strength to tolerate the lactate (assuming you were in decent sprint shape to begin with).
In fact, last year one of my athletes wanted to try sprinting for the first time. He was a basketball player and a fairly all around talented athlete.
In the space of 6 days his 400m time went from 1:09sec to 54 seconds. I know this doesn’t sound like a respectable time, nonetheless it’s a ridiculous improvement. The funny thing…all six days consisted of the SAME exact workout:
Dynamic Warmup
Plyos (Bounding - Double Leg Hops)
Acceleration Drills (Light–> Fast)
1x400m All-out
Relaxed stretching
Here’s the funny thing, every single day his time was dropping 1-2 seconds…until day 7. He added 4 seconds to his time!
So, in theory, it took a complete novice 6 consecutive workouts to burn his system out. I learned a lot from this including getting an idea of a measuring stick. If this kid gained such results in buffering capacity in 6 days, it’s safe to assume he could also lose it in 6 days of being off the track.
For this reason, I try to include some type of lactate training every 4-6 days and also don’t do any within 3-4 days of competition. If I feel I am recovering well, I may do some lactate training 2 days out from comp, but I am sure that my last workout before comp consists of something closer to max speed with bounding and such. This little “workout series” proved to me the value of keeping the lactate workouts through the year.
If that athlete never competes in the 200m and 400m, it may be a different story. However, every athlete I have trained with this methodology has done pretty well.
Someone only competing in the 60 and 100 may not fair as well.
This post makes me even more interested to see some more details on what you are doing throughout the year.
What was the reasoning to have the BB guy run 400’s 7 days in a row? 
IMHO the bracket bit I bolded is crucial. It is like KK’s 3x 3 x 300, 3 x 2 x long hills & 6 x 200 if you aren’t in great shape it’ll damn near kill you. :o
i did the same sort of thing when i 1st started athletics.
3 reps of 400m with about 20min recovery
that was 800m training
every day, 1-2sec was dropping off my 400m time, from around 63ish sec down to 54sec ish, took around a wk or 10days - something like that.
and
i was getting closer every day to even runs in all three 4’s. But that did take longer.
Hi John,
The reasoning for choosing the 400m distance was because I thought it would be the best compliment to matching the intensity of his basketball team’s style of play.
They heavily emphasized seizing fast break opportunities and were constantly sprinting on the court. I also had this kid start playing soccer during his BB off-season to strengthen his short sprint abilities on the court.
Doing it for 7 straight days was just something I had always wanted to try. I did the same type of workout 2 weeks prior to setting my 400m PR and saw the same exact results…constant improvement till about day 6 or 7 then a decline in performance.
The last week before my comp I trained normal and tapered normal and came out with a PR.
I’ve been very busy with work here lately, so my training hasn’t been up to par, but I plan on doing this same workout next week assuming the weather agrees with me:)
I live in NY with no access to an indoor facility, so I only get good training sessions in part of the year. Winter is spent doing mostly Oly llifts, powerlifting and gymnastics.
This is what I will do for next week. No weight lifting at all, just the 7 straight days of 1x400m all out and I will note my times, workouts and overall feelings/soreness/fatigue everyday.
I will have to think of a really killer name for such a workout.
How about the 400m beastout…lol
Individual variables can be so large as to render most if not all predictive formulae unreliable across a range of 400m athletes.
I was lucky enough to coach several world class 400 runners and what one would use as a test set, another could not even complete after a year of serious training.
Yet every athlete I’ve worked with has always demanded to know a prediction. I couldn’t give one and to be honest I didn’t think it was important. To me it indicated some sort of mental weakness in the athlete. You want to know what x + x =? Go race a 400m. What you run is what it equates to. No guesswork involved. It is what it is.
Of course after a few seasons you could get to know each particular sprinter and when they did a few things specific in their training, you knew they would be ready to go 45 or 44 or whatever.
Usually the predictive workouts would include a 300m time (to ascertain speed-endurance) as well as a split run such as 200 + 200 off 2min (to ascertain strength).
I am very curious about what everyone thinks of the concept of an all-out 400 every day for a week. This goes against any and every theory of training I have ever encountered.