2010 NFL Combine

James: Espn’s Lynn Pasquerella rated Doring Dickerson as the athlete that helped himself the most so far in the draft. He thinks he will be used like Chris Cooley as an H-Back

Wow, official 4.43… NFL timing issues.

Wouldn’t the fact that the timers have to react to the athlete’s first movement negate the reaction time recorded in a T&F sprint?

I’m having a hard time grasping the fact that Jacoby Ford and Trindon Holliday, both 6.55 or faster for 60m, didn’t record faster times.

This can probably be explained as:

-They aren’t training with the people who got them to 6.5s in the 60m

-They haven’t been competing and simply aren’t in 6.5 shape at this moment. They have both typically opened up 6.6high-6.7 and then dropped time after getting in races and getting in better shape for the 60m.

-The 40s are essentially handtimed and quite inaccurate and imprecise (as in, there are large variations in addition to being inaccurate)

-A lot of guys have good 30m or so ability even if they don’t run track and most of the truly fast guys in the NFL can probably run 6.7-6.8 first time out (most of these guys ran track in HS and went 10.6-10.9 anyway, which is close to that, combined with the fact they have relatively better acceleration anyway). Even some questionable S&C programs do a fairly good job of getting people to run a fairly fast 30m. Not 6.3-6.5 60m caliber acceleration, but better than would be expected because of the nature of their training and the fact they are very gifted, IMO. Very few are going to be in 6.5 shape, even if they were doing track in college, but it is quite reasonable to think many would be in the 6.7s and even 6.6s when fresh and after some races if they dedicated themselves for 2-3 months when healthy.

Taylor 40yd dash:


Did his hidden “up” hand confuse the timers giving him a free .10?

Could be CJ used a similar tech and had a big difference in his time.

Are you guys surprise with Trindon SLJ 9’8 vs his SVJ 42in?

He’s really short–I think that has a much greater effect on SLJ than VJ.

Well, remember that the official times are some form of aggregate of hand and manually started laser.

So the 4.24 was undoubtedly the time of one single timer using a stop watch who immediately reported his result up to the analysts. The official 4.43 is then, presumably, the result of the fact that that particular individual with the stop watch was quick to stop the time. I suspect that 9 out of 10 qualified timers had Taylor in the mid to high 4.3 range on their watch and this weighed against whatever the laser said is what yielded the official 4.43

Alternatively, as one example, whoever hand timed Dorin’s 40 was obviously much closer to the laser time because his official time of 4.40 remained the same as the unofficial time that posted immediately after he ran his first 40.

It’s definitely an academic scenario due to so much room for human error on both the stop watch as well as the manually started laser systems.

Regardless, these guys are fast and it;s impressive to consider their movement rates weighed against their bodymass.

exactly right

I expect quite a bit of uproar after the Simulcast of the fastest players from each position group, minus Holliday, revealed a massive discrepancy with the “official” times. Ford (4.28) was in first with Mays (4.43) a little less than a yard behind. Behind Mays by about a yard was Jahvid Best (4.35) who was about a half yard ahead of Dorin Dickerson (4.40). The QB (4.54) and the LB (4.54) were way behind with about a yard separating the two.

It’s time to make drastic changes to the timing in Indy.

Funny you mention this, I’m watching the replay and they just showed ford vs mays and I notice the samething.

I wonder how they even do the Simulcast is there is a manual start. I mean, overlaying the athletes’ runs is cool and all, but you can overlay me ahead of Bolt if you put me 5 seconds into the race and him 4. That’s an exaggeration, but I just don’t get how they even go about doing that unless they go in reverse, which they didn’t seem to do usually.

You would think they could do that right, wouldn’t you? …quite unfortunate. I have an idea. Pay a good track official his usual stipend of $50/day, feed him a peanut buttter sandwich, then let him use Dartfish to determine the times. Don’t get me started on what happens when you hit the 10m beam with your chest then the 20m beam with your hand then…

No question. The problem, however, is the dogma surrounding the American football coaching profession.

Most coaches/scouts are too conditioned to consider timing means other than stop watches because the annals of American football speed are recorded by hand.

The introduction of fully automatic timing would provide no comparison against the history of ‘fast’ performances and would require a paradigm shift in the current perception of speed in American football.

The business of the NFL is a multi-billion dollar industry yet draft boards are influenced by the hundredths of a second variances between athletes’ times that are recorded by scouts, coaches, and GMs with their stop watches.

Interesting to say the least.

I have been communicating with Sally Crawford of Fusion Sport regarding our interest in their timing system. http://fusionsport.com/portal/index.php

What did you think about the starting technique used by Mays and Spiller? While, in my opinion, it is not even close to optimal, there could be a possibility that it could throw a few scouts off and result in a faster time for the athlete. Both Spiller and Mays has disproportionate discrepancies between their unofficial and official times compared to the rest of the field.

It would shorten the distance to move forward. Question is if doing that changes the progression of mechanics that follow.

Well obviously any effect it would have on mechanics is likely to be a negative one. The question is whether it allows the athlete to trick the timer and steal a few hundredths.

That starting technique is a tumbling mistake and one that I’m certain cost those athletes hundredths, or more.

The extended trail leg almost completely obviates the power it is capable of generating in a more conventional stance in which it is bent. It’s essentially a one legged start.

I was absolutely shocked to see this being used; particularly by the players with T&F backgrounds. My initial thought was that the T&F athletes would have immediately questioned the competence of whoever instructed them to use that stance.

Done that way the forward leg then becomes solely responsible for driving out of the start position.