I’m currently working with a 15(nearly 16) year old moving from 200 to 400. He’s been doing lots of different sessions learning about the event. He’s managed to do one session of 4x200 in 26 secs with 2 mins. He found this reasonably tough so we then took a 4 min break and he did a 27… what sort of potential do you think this would indicate for the summer? I’m certainly not donig this sort of work every week and we mainly concentrate on speed/power but I’m introducing him to the type of training for a few years time.
Interesting situatin because he spent the summer not very well, having run 23.5 and 11.7 (right at the beginning of the season) he has run 36.0 for his first flat out 300 and can run 30 secs for 250 very comfortably.
I would rate him to run 11.4 tomorrow if he had a day off before hand.
I’d be interested to know what other people think we should be aiming at… and also any general opinions about training for this age. Obviously it would be great for him to do well this summer but I’d be far more interested in him excelling as a 19 year old…
I think it is complicated with younger athletes. I know myself that, if you look at the times for each and every meet/run, the times look very inconsistent because of the # of competitions and conditions. I mean I ran an 11.7h with a strong tailwind a week before I ran 11.18 into -1.5 and rain–I know many other people that had similar occurances (ie 22.8h 200m then 21.8fat 2 weeks later). The kid obviously has potential and I would continue to work on fitness a lot as you will make gains there, but I would not put as much into the results of every single meet. Look for the general trend.
Just thought you might like to know. We’ve started the season here and he’s done a few races. 23.1 opener for 200m in the wind for a pb and a 50.4 relay leg. He’s also running 36.0 for his first 300m time trial. Aim to get that to 35.6/7 during the summer.
I would be interested to konw what people think about this:
Our target is to run 49.5 with the race model:
Now would people suggest that in races we always go for the 23.7 opening 200 and as the season progresses he will run faster and faster over the second 200. Or would you try and run slower to 200 and get the feelig of being stronger in the home straight? I can see good arguments both ways…
He’s only just 16 now. Reasonable potential I feel…
23.7 is a quite reasonable opening if you want a time around 49.5. Let him also test a really quick opening, maybe 23.3-23.4 just to see if he can handle it. Remember that 400m is often a race up to 300m. No matter what, you will be “dead” the last 100m.
I have found that running the 400 based on 250 meter splits is much better.
After 250 you bring it home (turn it on) with whatever you have left at the waterjump (150). I also feel that sessions such as 4x250 with 5-6’ rest accomplishes race distribution and for some reason 250 times are easier to hit than 300 with more conistency in a race. If you go by 200 splits alot can happen with the remaining 250. By going for 250 splits you being to turn it on with 150 left. Also I find it helpful and most important to run the 250’s from the actual 400 start so you are actually rehearsing and getting used to the first 250 of the actual race. That I believe is key.
In a meet for a 49-50 second 400 runner you are looking at 29-30 for 250 and running the last 150 under 20. I also find the 250 rest 60" 150 split runs to be almost dead on.
Also when I run 4x250 during SPP with shorter rest I am looking to run them all in the 31.5-32.5 range. With the split reps. its at race pace.
The 150 is run off a rolling start. Usually a 5 meter fly actually. During the 60" recovery they usually pace around a bit. I have found this to be as close to a 400 in a meet as far as being a predictor as it gets. It will be within a half second.
Could I just ask what sort of ability range and experience athletes you are working with? And age etc.
Still really interested to hear other people’s opinions. Particularly race modelling. At the moment I’m happier if people get the 200 time right (fast) and then die than if they just coast and run slowly anyway.
If we want to run 49.5 I’d be grateful to hear competition/pre competition phase sessions people have used with athletes of roughly this ability and how their athletes have found them helpful or not.
Also, We’ve been working on 6x200 off 2 mnutes. The best was 6 all no slower than 26.5. When would you stop this sort of session. I work to a very concurrent, short to long programme and in this sense I see it as a specific session at this point. Was intending to do it up until 4 weeks before the major meet. Any advice on this?
If you want your boy to run a 49.5, he would be atleast at the 300-mark by 36.0 (200m-mark 23.7-23.8). Then it depends if he finish strong or dies, 12.5-13.5. So if he is really having a good day and finish strong he will be running a mid to high 48.5. Else we are talking about a mid to high 49.
Try to hit those times in training.
Rest 15min (full recovery)
He just can’t run aggressive all the way during these races. He just have to start accelerating the first 30-40m and find a “aggressive but relaxing float”. And about the 300m-race, he should run it like in a 400m-race. Do as I mentioned with the 200, and start running the curve good. If he can run this times in training, he will possibly run a low to mid 49. Of course you start from the 400m-start.
There is also another race model. Start out slow the first 200m, then push the last 200m. It’s almost like a “negative split”. But then you have to very fast and strong. So I prefer the other way.
Hi thanks for that. I’m pretty familiar with all of it.
I’m just interested from people’s practicakl experience how long they have carried on temp type short recovery reps into competition period and when they stop. Rather than longer reps with longer recovery. I’ve always gone toward 2x300 off 30 mins for instance and 2x200 off 1 minute but this eyar I was proposing to carry on 5-6x200 for quite a while… any help would be awesome