ZMA vs. BCAA+Glutamine (Bedtime)

Nutrition Discussions Supplements
1

I know both were discussed on the board already - but what do you think, what’s the arguments/proof for one or the other:

  1. ZMA 30 min before bedtime:
    Containing:
    • 150 mg Magnesium Aspartat
    • 10 mg Zinc (OptiZinc a la Balco)
    • 3.5 mg Vitamin B6

Pro: raises Testosterone levels naturally
Con: effect is not proven - only on probants with Zinc deficiency
Friends of mine (medical doctors, not selfdeclared nutrition specialists!) usually laugh about it and say if you’re not Zinc deficient it’s basically an expensive placebo.

  1. BCAAs + Glutamine before bedtime:
    • 1000mg L-Glutamin
    • 1000mg L-Leucin
    • 500mg L-Isoleucin
    • 500mg L-Valin
    • 0.8 mg VitaminB6

• 4500 mg free L-Glutamin (3 capsules)

Pro: raises natural HGH and Testosterone levels
Con: scientific proof besides studies of producers?

  1. Or can you take both? Same time, should there be time inbetween taking one and the other or do they interfere (like some supplements do)

What does everybody think? Thanks for help.
I don’t really know what to believe.

2

If it’s a placebo, you should believe strongly :wink: If not, who cares what you believe? :smiley:

I guess you have to try them out and experiment? I think its ok with BCAA + ZMA (or glutamine + ZMA). By the way… BCAAs are great during training.

I’m not that sure about ZMA being ‘just’ a placebo; I know too many people who categorically claim the effect – athletes and some non-athletes that don’t even know what ZMA is supposed to do. They all pretty much have the same kind of results (deeper sleep). Although, one (female) said it made her somewhat aggressive and therefore didn’t feel comfortable using the product – who knows, maybe she’s correct in her assessment?

The deficient-argument can be applied to any nutritional case; the augmentative effect being the highest when most needed – and therefore clearly eminent – than in cases when such situations are absent. Being nutritionally prepared, despite not feeling any effect, is much, much, much better than depletion (but feeling something).

3

what if you are taking a whey protien that has glutamine?

4

glutamine is absorbed better when
taken by itself or w/ bcaa’s.

5

Again we must look at the facts here. The ZMA product will help raise testosterone if the levels have been lowered due to very high volume and intense training over time and or common dietary problems. Zinc stores have been lowered with elite athletes and I have witnessed blood tests to confirm this. Taking ZMA at night is to help restore zinc levels and the magnesium and B-6 are to help relax the neuromuscular system. The “relaxation” aspects are not well documented but the Zinc research is very clear. Still when you are back to normal levels it will not raise your testosterone one nanogram.

Take the BCAA such as xtreme formulation’s ICE during speed and power work and keep the night free of it.

6

Sorry, it was a very long night last night, just woke up, so I’m still in morning mode. Can you elaborate what you mean by “keep the night free of it”?

7

Don’t take BCAA’s at night…

8

Ah yes, I missed the word “during”, thanks Clemson, I was still grougy (sp?) from last night.

9

perhaps you took BCAAs at night!

10

Thx, sounds reasonable, so i’ll probably chnang my original plan (bedtime BCAAs -> ZMA) which was:

immediately after getting up
(and 45 min before any breakfast):
6.3 g Arginine

btw. breakfast and lunch:
protein shake (aprox. 25g - 35g protein)

30 min. before Training:
6.3g Arginine

immediately after training:
BCAAs+
4.5g Glutamin+
500mg Vit C

(15-45 min later):
protein shake (aprox. 25g - 35g protein)

  • Vit B Complex

Bedtime (min 1-2 hrs after last meal):
BCAAs+
4.5g Glutamin (because it’s said it raises HGH significantly naturally)

11

I would take the Glutamine to support your immune system in the morning and not take any other BCAAs, save the during workout formula. Charlie has shared what he did in the 80s yet I see everyone thinking their Gatorade is going to be the same.

Take ZMA raw and last with no other product and the GH release theory doesn’t work with oral based products and their is a key difference between GH levels and GH action . I can starve myself and my GH will rise dramatically but it will not be a protocol to help performance! GH breaks down adipose tissue, so elevation of serum levels will not repair you as much as people may theorize.

12

How can I tell if I need ZMA? If I do start to take it, how long until things normalize and I get off it?

13

I guess it would be the same if there was no sugars in it and only BCAAs instead :wink:

So following your arguments I’ll change my overall plan to:

immediately after getting up
4.5g Glutamin

btw. breakfast and lunch:
protein shake (aprox. 25g - 35g protein)

30 min. before Training:
6.3g Arginine

immediately after training:
BCAAs+
4.5g Glutamin+
500mg Vit C

(15-45 min later):
protein shake (aprox. 25g - 35g protein)

  • Vit B Complex

Bedtime (min 1-2 hrs after last meal):
ZMA (which is):
• 150 mg Magnesium Aspartat
• 10 mg Zinc (OptiZinc a la Balco)
• 3.5 mg Vitamin B6

14

Hairsplitting? … but perhaps you could already start sipping BCAAs in the middle of a longer training session and at the end of a shorter one.

15

No hairsplitting at all - I’d take them about every 50-60 minutes (like Charlie recommended).

But being a “masters guy” (old) I plan not to do any workout longer than 60 minutes.