I know youve achieved some incredible strength and explosiveness but comparing that to winning 100m gold is naive. This is reality.
What we all need to do is expand our production capability. The maximization of all training components would shift ones capability further along the X-Y axis( if reperesented on a two dimensional graph) away from the origin. What we need to do is to exceed the Production Capabilty Curve. This is done through drugs, unthought of training methods, gene modification, and dozens of other unponderables. All we can do now is strive to train to the absolute best of our possibility, and let the rest fall into place.
I think a white guy could win any sprint. As mentioned before they’re all discouraged. In fact when I first joined track my coach said I would never break 10.8 in the 100 and that I should move to the 400. Looking back I should have looked for another coach then and there. I have no plans to change events because I think that white guys can succeed but are probably discouraged. Anyways a white guy won Canadian Nationals, a white guy won Ontario High School Provincials, I don’t see any reason why these results could not be the same on the international level.
and once again, sell yourself short, not an entire race, it makes you sound pathetic and pesimistic. oh yeah, and the strength levels and explosive numbers of mine that you talked about compare pretty favorably to some of the best in the world, but i wasnt in any way comparing this to a gold medel in terms of prestige. i was just showing that many people would have bet their house that i wouldnt be able to have a 46.5 inch vert because its rare and because i am white, and they would be wrong!
just because there isnt anybody close right now, doesnt mean that there isnt some white kid right now who will be the fastest. we just dont know so why say it cant happen.
why put limits on things.
I must say, all of which has been said can be really discouraging for a white wannabe sprinter. i am white, and i want to be a sprinter. even though i dont want to be a world class sprinter, i still want to do the best i can. everyone should not say ‘white athletes cant be sprinters’ instead we should say ‘white athletes could be sprinters’ give us challenges. give us encouragement. sure we wont beat asafa, but heck, nothing stops us from trying…
my two cents
I said before genetics come down to the individual more so than race. The way you worded it made it sound like getting very high vert was similiar to a white athlete winning 100m gold.
The discussion wasn’t about wether white people could sprint or not. We all know you can get to world class times no matter the race. But to win 100m gold in this lifetime is unrealistic.
your shortsightedness is troubling. i hope you dont have this type of attitude toward other aspects of life. you are setting yourself up to be “that guy” who said it couldnt be done, only to be proven wrong later on. and nobody wants to be “that guy”.
Lol! So you can judge that off a post on a forum? Maybe if I posted a picture of my palm you might gain a better insight? You do know what your talking about.
thanks !!! ha
to prevent more bullshit between us on this thread, i just sent you a pm.
Well that put the cat amongst the pigeons didn’t it :eek:
I will repeat the first 6 words of my lead post
If we look at things objectively it appears that hasn’t always happened. :o although there have been interesting insights.
Is it limiting or reality to think a white guy can’t win the OG 100m? Personally I say reality. That isn’t to say it can’t or wont happen just that there is a better chance of medalling at 200m and 400m.
For those unaware Rapsmvp is in no way a Honky :eek: (do people still say honky?)
Wasn’t it a white fella who invented the bow and arrow and the other colourthe spear? stands to reason that a bow was needed to go quicker we simply forgot how we did it -run fast that is
Watch this!
PBS~ Race: The Power of an Illusion (2003)
Part One: The Difference Between Us http://www.pbs.org/race/
(One of 3 Parts, 56 minutes each, two parts to folo )
ABOUT THE FILM: By asking, What is this thing called ‘race’?, a question so basic it is rarely asked, Race - The Power of an Illusion helps set the terms that any further discussion of race must first take into account. Ideal for human biology, anthropology, sociology, American history, American studies, and cultural studies. The division of the world’s peoples into distinct groups - “red,” “black,” “white” or “yellow” peoples - has became so deeply imbedded in our psyches, so widely accepted, many would promptly dismiss as crazy any suggestion of its falsity. Yet, that’s exactly what this provocative, new three-hour series by California Newsreel claims. Race - The Power of an Illusion questions the very idea of race as biology, suggesting that a belief in race is no more sound than believing that the sun revolves around the earth. Yet race still matters. Just because race doesn’t exist in biology doesn’t mean it isn’t very real, helping shape life chances and opportunities. Part 1- The Difference Between Us examines the contemporary science - including genetics - that challenges our common sense assumptions that human beings can be bundled into three or four fundamentally different groups according to their physical traits. (Altough this part of the documentary demonstates its liberal, inclusive message successfully, perhaps it is a little over-weaning in doing so. We know that the genetic basis of ‘racial’ differences is very small and is most noticeable in physical characteristics, the science presented seems to overplay its hand in coming close to suggesting that mitochondrial markers are not effective in identifying fairly reliablely the ancestry of an invididual.
Anyway, Part Two is more interesting in the historical, sociological history of race…to be posted 24 hours later…so enjoy Part 1.
Visit the producer’s website: http://www.newsreel.org/
CRITICAL COMMENT:
“By far the best documentary series on race of the last decade.” Troy Duster, former president, American Sociological Association. “This eye-opening look at why race is not biologically meaningful yet nonetheless very real needs to be seen by all scientists and the general public.”
Donald Kennedy, Editor-in-Chief, SCIENCE “One of the most honest and compelling documentary series I’ve ever seen on race and its impact on this nation’s culture and politics, as well as on the economic status of nonwhite citizens.”
Acel Moore, Philadelphia Inquirer “A marvelously intelligent documentary. A timely reminder that social divisions are made, not inevitable.”
Patricia Williams, The Nation “Different from other discussions of race because it’s an argument made methodically and with evidence. That we are all “created equal” is both superficially true as political rhetoric, deeply true as scientific fact and manifestly ridiculous when one considers the financial, educational and social inequities of our society.”
Philip Kennicott, Washington Post “Illuminating and provocative. Race does matter " not as genetics " but as lived experience. Eloquently documented.”
Annie Nakao, San Francisco Chronicle “Racists have often used pseudoscience to justify their socially damaging views; watch these films to see how science, by replacing ignorance with knowledge, can undo that damage.”
James Watson, Nobel laureate “Insightful. Easy to watch, even entertaining as it educates. You will not see race the same way after watching the series.”
Jerry Large, Seattle Times “So why did RACE- The Power of an Illusion floor me? The show explains how contemporary science debunks old notions of race, how these ugly falsehoods evolved, and where race does live – in institutions that disproportionately, and often invisibly, grant power and wealth to whites.”
Donna Britt, Washington Post “In this atmosphere of race doublespeak, RACE " The Power of an Illusion is one of the most important, sweeping and groundbreaking documentaries in recent memory.”
Esther Iverem, BET.com “This is deeply resonant material with the potential to make everyone who watches it think in a new and fundamental way about society.”
Steve Johnson, Chicago Tribune PBS~ Race: The Power of an Illusion (2003) Part One: The Difference Between Us http://www.pbs.org/race/ (One of 3 Parts, 56 minutes each, two parts to folo )
ABOUT THE FILM By asking, What is this thing called ‘race’?, a question so basic it is rarely asked, Race - The Power of an Illusion helps set the terms that any further discussion of race must first take into account. Ideal for human biology, anthropology, sociology, American history, American studies, and cultural studies. The division of the world’s peoples into distinct groups - “red,” “black,” “white” or “yellow” peoples - has became so deeply imbedded in our psyches, so widely accepted, many would promptly dismiss as crazy any suggestion of its falsity. Yet, that’s exactly what this provocative, new three-hour series by California Newsreel claims. Race - The Power of an Illusion questions the very idea of race as biology, suggesting that a belief in race is no more sound than believing that the sun revolves around the earth. Yet race still matters. Just because race doesn’t exist in biology doesn’t mean it isn’t very real, helping shape life chances and opportunities. Part 1- The Difference Between Us examines the contemporary science - including genetics - that challenges our common sense assumptions that human beings can be bundled into three or four fundamentally different groups according to their physical traits. (Altough this part of the documentary demonstates its liberal, inclusive message successfully, perhaps it is a little over-weaning in doing so. We know that the genetic basis of ‘racial’ differences is very, small and is most noticeable in physical characteristics, the science presented seems to overplay its hand in coming close to suggesting that mitochondrial markers are not effective in identifying fairly reliablely the ancestry of an invididual. Anyway, Part Two is more interesting in the historical, sociological history of race…to be posted 24 hours later…so enjoy Part 1.) Federal funding for CPB/PBS is going to be cut significantly over the next two years, so if you watch any of these programs, please support your local PBS Station by making a contribution or by purchasing their DVDs. Visit the producer’s website: http://www.newsreel.org/ CRITICAL COMMENT “By far the best documentary series on race of the last decade.” Troy Duster, former president, American Sociological Association “This eye-opening look at why race is not biologically meaningful yet nonetheless very real needs to be seen by all scientists and the general public.” Donald Kennedy, Editor-in-Chief, SCIENCE “One of the most honest and compelling documentary series I’ve ever seen on race and its impact on this nation’s culture and politics, as well as on the economic status of nonwhite citizens.” Acel Moore, Philadelphia Inquirer “A marvelously intelligent documentary. A timely reminder that social divisions are made, not inevitable.” Patricia Williams, The Nation “Different from other discussions of race because it’s an argument made methodically and with evidence. That we are all “created equal” is both superficially true as political rhetoric, deeply true as scientific fact and manifestly ridiculous when one considers the financial, educational and social inequities of our society.” Philip Kennicott, Washington Post “Illuminating and provocative. Race does matter " not as genetics " but as lived experience. Eloquently documented.” Annie Nakao, San Francisco Chronicle “Racists have often used pseudoscience to justify their socially damaging views; watch these films to see how science, by replacing ignorance with knowledge, can undo that damage.” James Watson, Nobel laureate “Insightful. Easy to watch, even entertaining as it educates. You will not see race the same way after watching the series.” Jerry Large, Seattle Times “So why did RACE- The Power of an Illusion floor me? The show explains how contemporary science debunks old notions of race, how these ugly falsehoods evolved, and where race does live – in institutions that disproportionately, and often invisibly, grant power and wealth to whites.” Donna Britt, Washington Post “In this atmosphere of race doublespeak, RACE " The Power of an Illusion is one of the most important, sweeping and groundbreaking documentaries in recent memory.” Esther Iverem, BET.com “This is deeply resonant material with the potential to make everyone who watches it think in a new and fundamental way about society.” Steve Johnson, Chicago Tribune PBS~ Race: The Power of an Illusion (2003) Part One: The Difference Between Us http://www.pbs.org/race/ (One of 3 Parts, 56 minutes each, two parts to folo ) ABOUT THE FILM By asking, What is this thing called ‘race’?, a question so basic it is rarely asked, Race - The Power of an Illusion helps set the terms that any further discussion of race must first take into account. Ideal for human biology, anthropology, sociology, American history, American studies, and cultural studies. The division of the world’s peoples into distinct groups - “red,” “black,” “white” or “yellow” peoples - has became so deeply imbedded in our psyches, so widely accepted, many would promptly dismiss as crazy any suggestion of its falsity. Yet, that’s exactly what this provocative, new three-hour series by California Newsreel claims. Race - The Power of an Illusion questions the very idea of race as biology, suggesting that a belief in race is no more sound than believing that the sun revolves around the earth. Yet race still matters. Just because race doesn’t exist in biology doesn’t mean it isn’t very real, helping shape life chances and opportunities. Part 1- The Difference Between Us examines the contemporary science - including genetics - that challenges our common sense assumptions that human beings can be bundled into three or four fundamentally different groups according to their physical traits. (Altough this part of the documentary demonstates its liberal, inclusive message successfully, perhaps it is a little over-weaning in doing so. We know that the genetic basis of ‘racial’ differences is very, small and is most noticeable in physical characteristics, the science presented seems to overplay its hand in coming close to suggesting that mitochondrial markers are not effective in identifying fairly reliablely the ancestry of an invididual. Anyway, Part Two is more interesting in the historical, sociological history of race…to be posted 24 hours later…so enjoy Part 1.) Federal funding for CPB/PBS is going to be cut significantly over the next two years, so if you watch any of these programs, please support your local PBS Station by making a contribution or by purchasing their DVDs. Visit the producer’s website: http://www.newsreel.org/ CRITICAL COMMENT “By far the best documentary series on race of the last decade.” Troy Duster, former president, American Sociological Association “This eye-opening look at why race is not biologically meaningful yet nonetheless very real needs to be seen by all scientists and the general public.” Donald Kennedy, Editor-in-Chief, SCIENCE “One of the most honest and compelling documentary series I’ve ever seen on race and its impact on this nation’s culture and politics, as well as on the economic status of nonwhite citizens.” Acel Moore, Philadelphia Inquirer “A marvelously intelligent documentary. A timely reminder that social divisions are made, not inevitable.” Patricia Williams, The Nation “Different from other discussions of race because it’s an argument made methodically and with evidence. That we are all “created equal” is both superficially true as political rhetoric, deeply true as scientific fact and manifestly ridiculous when one considers the financial, educational and social inequities of our society.” Philip Kennicott, Washington Post “Illuminating and provocative. Race does matter " not as genetics " but as lived experience. Eloquently documented.” Annie Nakao, San Francisco Chronicle “Racists have often used pseudoscience to justify their socially damaging views; watch these films to see how science, by replacing ignorance with knowledge, can undo that damage.” James Watson, Nobel laureate “Insightful. Easy to watch, even entertaining as it educates. You will not see race the same way after watching the series.” Jerry Large, Seattle Times “So why did RACE- The Power of an Illusion floor me? The show explains how contemporary science debunks old notions of race, how these ugly falsehoods evolved, and where race does live – in institutions that disproportionately, and often invisibly, grant power and wealth to whites.” Donna Britt, Washington Post “In this atmosphere of race doublespeak, RACE " The Power of an Illusion is one of the most important, sweeping and groundbreaking documentaries in recent memory.” Esther Iverem, BET.com “This is deeply resonant material with the potential to make everyone who watches it think in a new and fundamental way about society.” Steve Johnson, Chicago Tribune
FYI
4 world heavyweight boxing champions are Russians and white.
Who would dare to predict it 5 years ago?
I understand what you are saying now. However, are the demands/requirements of the 200 so very different from those in the 100(of course there are some differences) as to make the the 200 “possible” but the 100 not so?
REALITY REALITY REALITY. i read this in a lot of peoples post. “lets be real”, “cant happen in reality” guess what guys reality is changing because the second a white athlete wins the 100m reality has changed. IT was a reality that blacks were slaves in america until they were freed and a new reality presented itself. IT was reality that women were inferior to men, couldnt control their emotions, couldnt hold the sawe job as men, until that reality changed. I cant believe how socially irresponsible people can be, you squash the dreams of some young white sprinter that could be the greatest. you dont understand that the things you say effect those around you and that you should keep them to yourselves. those that are weak those that fail and dont rise love to bring those around them down to. it takes the heat off of them, that “why didint you succed”. you cover yourself from the blinding light that is your weakness and your shortcomming with the “never did try of others”. the past does not dictate the future it only suggests it. if you guys were stock market analysis you would be fired within a week because you believe the past is reality but its not. For those of you, and you know who you are dont believe that a white athlete can win 100m GM quite track now cause im telling you right now you dont have what it takes to have any serious success. next thing your gunna tell me is the darker your skin the faster you run. race is a myth. we all use the term but in reality it is a myth. i apologize to all of you that are not above described. but it needed to be said. history is full of people who were told they cant and they went the distance. when all logic says you should stop, when it says you should give up, you keep on going driven by something that others cant understand. that is true greatness because you are not only batteling your competitors you are batteling everyone around you. all you have in your head is that little voice saying keep on going and even you dont always know why you do.
Have any of you read “Taboo” by John Entine? It’s actually quite interesting, regardless of your stance on this subject.
no i havent read it but ill look for it the next time im at the book store. thanks
Firstly I regret if anyone has been offended by this discussion, that was not and never is my intention.
For James and anyone else who may have misinterpreted the post I started this thread with I have reposted it below for reference.
If we look at things objectively there appears little to no chance of a white athlete reaching the top (medal at WC or OG) in the 100m.
Is it more realistic to plan on the 400 / 200 (order of priority) as a more realistic chance of success? The suggestion being that till around 17-18 they would stick to 100 / 200 the 2-3 years 200 / 400 then 400 / 200?
I know personalities and event preference play a part but put that aside and imagine you have a white athlete who is naturally quick and says what is my best chance to reach the top?
My intention was that there were 2 key points
- The subject was discussed objectively
FYI the word has meanings of
Of or having to do with a material object.
Having actual existence or reality.
- Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. See Synonyms at fair1.
- Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objectively
I have bolded what I saw as most relevant.
- In order for an objective young white athlete to achieve their dream of medalling at OG or WC is it more likely they will do that in 100m or 400 / 200.
You are correct when you state the past does not dictate the future it only suggests it.. Right now historical data suggests a white athlete has a greater chance of medalling in the 400 / 200. That is not to say a white athlete can’t or wont win 100m, heck I really hope they do.
James,
no more personal attacks please.
NumberTwo, I haven’t read it but have heard discussion about it.
Viktor Bryzgin Leningrad 07 06 1986 10.03 -2.5
suspicious wind or not, iaaf accepted it just like they did with calvin smiths time.
Recognised as a USSR record, but ATFS statisticians discount it.
greatness is built on unliklyhoods. and as for you definition its not applicalbe because emotion is everything in life, success isnt achieved in a sterile black and white enviornment. as for personal attacks i said nothing direct towards anyone in specific but if you find that you meet the description of the type of person i described then i am sorry for you but atleast you realize your limitations. im sorry if i slaped you in the face with the “reality” of your persona.