The 800m requires both speed and endurance.
What about doing just training to increase LT and pure speed during base to build both speed and endurance. Then when when getting ready for competition add lactic race spesific workouts?
So that means almost no hard lactic workout during base just intervalls like 5-6x1k and short hills like 7x100m for building speed.
Then sessions like 6x300m 4x400m when preparing for competition.
The reason why I wonder is because I have read that the lactic system only needs 4-6 weeks to be completely developed.
So why do sessions at 1500m/800m/3000m pace during base?
Check out Seb-Coe’s training books - Basically x-country / road races in off season, after which, slowly progressing into more track La work by season.
And yes, maintain or improve upon Basic Speed year round.
What I have read coe did the 5 pace training invented by frank horwill.
But I cant, from a physiological find the reason for doing shorter intervalls during base. Endurance is endurance and speed is speed. And they get connected in the race season into specific workouts.
I think very few actually do this? But what about doing just milage and intervalls at 5k pace to build endurance together with speed (8x60m, short hills etc…without lactic buildup)
Whats the reason for having intervalls like 12x200m, 10x300m, 8x400m 5x600m during base training?
Because grinding out distance at 5k pace/threshold tears people down. It’s too hard to optimally build endurance and too slow to build speed. And you’ll just burn out. Build endurance with true endurance work, build speed with true speed work; you’ll get more out of both than trying to build them at the same time. Then put them together.
I cant see why 5k pace intervalls like 5x1k should tear you down? Most middle distanse runners do this once a week. According to reasearch this is very effective for improving vo2 max.
The speed session I mentioned is true speed work. f.ex 8x60m, 7x100m hills. at least for a 800m runner its probably fast enough to improve speed.
What is true endurance work for u? Slow long lsd running? And what is true speed for you?
And John, what has your post with this topic to do?
it was an example of what Bold had linked to and was totally in line with what you were questioning but over 400m. If you don’t want it included then fine. I have now deleted it and won’t bother contributing.
right, once per week a PART of overall training along with true endurance work and true speed work.
But that’s not what you originally said which was
“But what about doing just milage and intervalls at 5k pace to build endurance together with speed (8x60m, short hills etc…without lactic buildup)”
See that word ‘just’ up there. You’re suggesting doing nothing but 5k pace work. That’s what ‘just’ means. And that’s what I responded to. If you did NOTHING but work at 5k race pace it would tear you down and, you know what, just read what I wrote again so I don’t have to retype it.
These types of sessions build race pace specific speed. They are sustained hard efforts that are relevant to the race distance. 5x1K is “too long” and 8x60m are “too short”. They may have a place to play but IMHO are less powerful training stimulants.
There are 2 main approaches to middle distance traing - lyddiard and horwill. Both have proven to work. Have you tried either approach on your own training or in coaching ?
I knocked 5%+ off all my times from 800m to 10miles using multi pace training.
I have tried something similar to Horwills multi pace training and I respond well to that. I think Lydiard training is a bit outdated. Problem with lydard training is that you have too spend so long time putting in the slow miles, and probably not good for injury prone athletes. I think most people tend to train multipace intuitively when training for middle distance.
But still I cant find any reason to do race specific training or more correct maybe, training at 800-1500-3000m paces during base other than variation?
I know many people cover all the paces all year, I just cant find the physiological reason for doing so I am just curious.
Does endurance at 1500m/3000m pace give some other or better stimuli than endurance at 5k-10k pace give?
I would do Lyddiard for base training, but I agree not for too long a period. Horwill training for peaking, but with 1 x per week Horwill session duing base period to keep in touch with speed.
Seb Coe liked 1500/3000m sessions since he believed they improved aerobic capacity/VO2 max.
Lyddiard system is more complicated than most realize. He never leaves speed any week of the year.
It is super tough for some, easy for others - My immune system suffers big time with Lyddiard - but thrives on Multi Pace. But multi pace my O2 fitness is not as good as Lyddiard.
I’m trying more of a Weekend long runs and weekdays Multipace now. Hopefully it will enjoy
I am just curious.