What is the scoop on NO2...it is legit?

It is a new product offered by Edward Byrd of the Medical Research Institute. This is the same guy who introduced creatine. It is supposed to be pretty potent…more so than creatine. It is promoted as being able to “generate and sustain levels of Nitric Oxide in the human skeletal muscles.” It claims substantial performance enhancement as a result. Has anyone tried it yet? What is your view Charlie?

don’t waste your money, its just arginine.

some have great results and some see absolutely nothing. so i wouldn’t waste my money.

One of my clients take it, he said that he didn’t notice anything.

Who knows.

I don’t think it’s a good supplement if you ask me.

Kenny Mac~~

It would be more for body builders anyways. M. Colgan is not in favour of the “Pump” effect. It reduces nerve impulse I believe, and slows recovery, and is just excess fluid. Don’t quote me on this one though. It talks about the “Pump” effect in his book The New Power Program.

Don’t bother with it. Why would a sprinter want their muscles to be constantly pumped anyways?

There has been no scientific research published on the NO2
product. The claim of “perpetual pump” is something that
a sprinter does not want. Sprinters need loose and relaxed
muscles, not pumped muscles. If it really does pump the
muscles up and make them tight, then boybuilders may benefit from it. However, as probodybuilder Milos Sarcev says, “bodybuilders are mannikin athletes”. In short, there
is zero science and even if the product does what the
manufacturer’s say it does, a sprinter would not want
to use the product.

… the guy who introduced creatine… :smiley:

I love comments like this. Sorry - but that is well, kaka. Creatine was being used in the early 90´s and probably in the 80´s as a supplement for athletes. It was being used in clinical situations in Scandanavia before this. English and Scandinavian scientists were collaborating in research and there were probably connections within the training groups of Linford Christie, Mark McKoy and Colin Jackson.

I met a Swedish biochemist in the early 90´s who had been using it for years in clinical work before they decided to try it with athletes.

I have seen a reference to a paper published in 1981 where creatine was used to try to help in eye damage or disease. Check out sportsci.org, their sport nutrition section, an article about creatine and look at the reference list.

I really don´t know whether to laugh, scream, or puke when I hear about some guy being the inventor or creator or introducer of whatever…

Okay, okay, I´ll get off my soapbox now…

i wouldnt hit it.

i agree with 716, even if it does what it said and you got it for free, why would an athlete want the pump?

as for fitness trainers and bodybuilders, i dont see it being worth the $$$.

Its good if your a lifeguard maybee or a beach bum I suppose. You dont have to go somewhere and keep doing pushups if you want to maintain your pump. lol.

Also i heard the original no2 stuff is ok (if you want that punp). But this other stuff called “NOX2” made by Pinnacle which is supposed ot be the same thing is acuallty garbage.

Yo Carson, don’t take it so personally. That is Byrd’s claim…I am just repeating his advertisment. Thanks, however, for clarifying the Creatine history for us…Byrd sounds more like an infomercial than anything.

Since i posted this question over a month ago, a couple of weight-lifting friends of mine have given it a two thumbs down. In addition, I agree it is counter productive to the sprinter.

When I heard of the NO2 product about 2 years ago, I made a point of getting in touch with Ed Byrd, the man in charge of Medical Research Institute. I was pleasantly surprised by the level of data and research he had on the clinical use of NO (Nitric Oxide). I was curious enough to offer to do some clinical research with a small group of my patients. We selected an older group - over 45 yrs. Each patient was given a questionnaire prior to induction and answered the same questionnaire a month later upon completion of a 30-day protocol of NO2.
We were hoping to see changes in the tune of improved muscle tone, and strength, but the short duration of the trial yeilded inconsistent results in that area. INTERESTINGLY, the greatest improvement was seen in connective tissue and cartilage parameters. On average, most patients felt more flexible, better skin tone, and less joint-related complaints. This, after only 30 days.

There is a lot of very compelling work being done with this product and the premis that gave it birth. Keep in mind, Arginine is a principle component of creatine formation (along with glycine). This, combined with Arginine’s role in nitric oxide, creates a profound vasodilatory and cell volumizing effect (in theory). In some, though, especially those prone to dehydration, this can produce light-headedness and pseudohypovolemia (basically, symptoms of dehydration). In the well-hydrated, the effects could be impressive.

This, like any other commentary on the imfluence of supplements, goes to the biochemical individuality of the person taking the supplement. It will work for some, not for others. **Hint: take your blood pressure. If it’s high, NO will probably work wonders. If it’s low, consider NO2 valuable as a training tool to create a challenge situation, but not to get buff.

There are countless benefits of using a nitric oxide stimulating supplements (like Muscletech’s Pump-Tech, NO2 or Pinnacle’s NOX) - regardless of whether or not you’re a bodybuilder after a “pump” - in fact athletes training for speed and strength can benefit immensely.

Many studies show that nitric oxide acts as a signaling molecule that plays a vital role in causing the relaxation of the smooth muscle tissue that makes up the walls of blood vessels. This relaxation and widening of the blood vessels that “feed” your muscles is called vasodilation, and it’s important because it helps to supply enough blood and oxygen to your muscles.

The end results is you get active hyperemia or the “pump” which helps increase nutrient delivery to and waste product removal from your muscles via the following:

  1. Increased blood flow
  2. Increased capillary density
  3. GLUT 4 translocation / non insulin mediated glucose uptake

I don’t I need to explain to too many people here why increased nutrient delivery to your muscles and increased waste removal from your muscles is a good thing do I? :stuck_out_tongue:

A recent study (at Baylor University) also showed that athletes taking 12 grams of arginine alpha-ketoglutarate showed significant increases in their 1-RM bench press without gaining weight or changing body composition. This further cements the use of these supplements for athletes who are looking to boost performance without changing their weight or composition.

Tell me why this is superior to pure Arginine or Arginine/Methionine? What’s the cost difference

This is incorrect. How does increased blood flow (the catalyst of a pump) decrease recovery? If anything constricted arteries slow recovery, not vasodilated arteries. Please see my above post for some detail.

With regards to his claim about excess fluid - intramuscular water retention is very anabolic, if this is what he is referring to. Benefits include the potential for increase satellite cell recruitement and protein synthesis. However this is usually gained from carbohydrate loading or creatine loading - not from consuming arginine, ginseng, pycnogenol or other nitric oxide boosting supplements.

I’m not sure about the cost difference. I don’t think that arginine as a single amino acid is permitted for sale in Canada, so I’ve never shopped for it. AAKG supplements started out as being very expensive - $100 + for a few weeks supply, though prices are coming down as market competition increases. Another “supplement” that works just as well is sildenafil citrate. :wink:

Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate is L-arginine molecularly bonded to the Kreb’s cycle intermediate Alpha-Ketoglutaric acid. Oral ingestion of AAKG is supposed to result in better delivery of L-arginine. I think the theory is that AAKG is more readily absorbed than straight L-arginine. So on a cost per serving ration, it’s hard to tell. How much regular arginine is coverted to NO compared to AAKG? I’m not sure.

Though I’ve also heard that consuming high doses of arginine with orange juice provides a similar effect as AAKG.

My last answer was a bit hurried (had to take off to attend to something) so I hope this will answer the question better.

As discussed, ariginine alpha-ketolglutarate is a salt formed from two molecules of arginine and one molecule of a-ketoglutarate. a-ketoglutarate is the carbon skeleton of glutamine and is involved in the metabolism of glutamine.

a-ketoglutarate is the fourth step the 8-part Krebs cycle. While a-ketoglutarate supplementation can certainly increase ATP production, it isn’t understood what role it plays in increasing nitric oxide production. One theory is that a-ketoglutarate inhibits the arginase pathway so when bonded with arginine, more arginine is routed to the nitric oxide synthase pathway. However, even in the presence of AKG, arginine is still a non-essential amino acid and not much will make it past the gut to the endothelium. The arginine must be protected from the gut for maximum delivery to the endothelium (usually done with the addition of phosphates).

Nitric oxide production occurs with a single molecule of arginine. If the arginine has not been hydrolyzed down to peptide form, it cannot react with oxygen and NADPH to form Nitric oxide. Arginine peptides produce nitric oxide for only lasts for a 3-4 seconds, so NO levels will not remain elevated for an extended period of time. So we need a method for the arginine to slowly be released. Peptide bonding arginine to an a-ketoglutarate peptide will allow for that. Companies that use straight L-ariginine, use considerably more per servering size (usally 1500 mg for AAKG and 3-4000 mg for L-arginine) - though because of the repeated dosing required for both supplements, consuming straight L-arginine in such high quantities can lead to stomach discomfort and diarrhea - which can result in acute dehydration and decreased performance.

L-Arginine and alpha-ketoglutaric acid also reduce the negative by-products of exercise such as ammonia and lactic acid. Another reason for the combination of the two.

Companies will generally provide phospholipids in the supplement to protect the arginine from the gut, which is why the arginine must already be in peptide form. This is where the orange juice and L-arginine theory comes from. The theory being that the OJ will alter the PH of the stomach and allow more arginine to pass the stomach and into the endothelium.

I think that explains the theory why AAKG is supposed to be better than L-arginine alone. One should note that most of the nitric oxide supplements out there do have both L-arginine and AAKG.

I’m not on expert on the subject though - so any corrections are welcome :slight_smile:

How does di-arginine malate compare to AAKG? Any better or worse? BSL only has arginine or di arginine malate available in their custom formulas. Also, what you think about stacking it with citrulline malate?

Malate is just another krebs cycle intermediate. I doubt there is any advantage to using di-arginine malate vs. AAKG.

With regards to citrulline, I’d say yes, go for and stack the two. Any good NO supplement (like Nitrous or Pump-Tech will combine the two)

Bascially the arginine in AAKG is a direct precursor in nitric oxide synthesis and is converted to nitric oxide via NOS (nitric oxide synthase).

A product of this reaction is the amino acid citrulline, which will be reversibly converted to arginine in a two-step process requiring the amino acid aspartic acid, which is also known as aspartate. So including both citrulline malate and aspartic acid with your AAKG can be beneficial.

Arginine, in doses greater than 3 grams has a number of potential health benefits including vasodilation, increasing capillary blood flow, it is half of the creatine molecute so it can act as a substrate for the body to make more creatine, it can aid in wound and muscle healing and it is good for general immunity. No point in paying extra for NO2 (chemically it should be NO for nirtric oxide which is the neurotransmitter made from arginine. N02 is not the same, it is the gas that your friendly dentist gives you.