Anibal5
For beginner athletes you suggested whey protein concentrate. I am just curious why you would suggest that over other forms such as whey protein isolate?
And I am curious why Anibal5 is the first one to throw Creatine on the board. I thought more people would have considered it a standby as well.
adam
look into “pro score 100” by champion. its the one i use everyday and the “natural” has no flavor and no sweetners.
isolate is absorbed so quickly that even though it is high quality, you need to follow it up with a slower release protein, whole food or a blended powder. i dont use a pure isloate, i use whey blends, i think you get the best of both worlds.
Adam,
I don’t think creatine is a slam-dunk for sprinters because it can cause water weight gain (= reduced power/wt ratio) and I think I recall someone theorizing that it can reduce muscle contraction speed as a result of the extra water in the muscles (but this recollection is a bit hazy!) Anyone remember?
xlr8
i use creatine in the offseason but come the season it goes out the window. any extra inner musc volume could lead to injuries and as X metioned, lowers strength to weight ratio.
with that said, i am a low responder to creatine, partially as a result of my diet which includes regular feeding on animal flesh. athletes that dont eat meat seem to get a better response from creatine and should possibly use a very low maintence dose through out the season…3gm 3 times a week with their recovery drink…any thoughts?
Cr can lower strength to weight ratio but this is often outweighed by the increased strength/power endurance and a resulting overall better performance.
However, increased intramuscular volume is a big worry. I tore my hamstring last year whilst loaded up on Cr - coincidence? - obviously can’t be sure.
Nightmare, Beef contains about 0.6g Cr per 150g meat (normal meal), therefore if you are eating atleast one beef (or fish) meal/day you may be less respondent from supplementing.
Note: digestion as well as cooking (heat) decrease Cr absorption
1.bcaa/glutamine
2.fish oil (EPA/DHA)
3.Multi
proscore- awesome protein!
slow releasing proteins still raise insulin. To really slow release, even if using a when isolate, add fiber. Fiber will slow down release much more than any slow releasing protein will.
what is your top 3 supplements?
by the way, are you a coach, athlete or what? because you have tremendous knowledge on this stuff.
thanks
chris
when i use proscore during the day, i add 1 tbsp of udo’s oil and eat it with either an apple or some high fibre veggies.
if you are using proscore on a regular basis, are you sure you need to add extra bcaa and glut?
nightmare4d,
You have it covered, proscore with udos and veggies/fruit is the way to go! Proscore is one of those “underdog” proteins. Not popular but comes out on top.
Regarding BCAA, I always use before and after training, not with proscore. Generally 1/2 hr after bcaa I will have either a solid meal or the proscore/udo/veggie combo (or variation of it) that you mentioned. I really cant handle simple carbs well. I get bloated and dizzy when using them. I also gain weight in the abdominal area (get fat) when using them, it must just be an individual thing? I feel much better on BCAA’s. Other people who cant tolerate carbs well that I have talked to feel the same. I guess if you can handle carbs, forget the BCAA, but for me, they are a must. I originally heard the idea from Dr. Serrano when he talked about people who couldnt tolerate carbs.
Anibal5
0.6g Cr per meal (0.6-1.8g/day) may reduce respondance from Cr supplementation if the total Cr muscle content has become significantly high.
Hultman et al (1996) used 2 diff doses: 20g/day for 6 days and 3g/day for 28 days. Similar increases in total muscle Cr content resulted.
Therefore it would be reasonable to assume that a small amounts of around 1.2g/day (or more depending on diet) over a long period could possibly raise Cr significantly to reduce respondance from supplementation.
I am not stating this definate - only a possibility!
In view of your high loading criteria this may be of interest:
Harris et al (1992) reported that in 3 volunteers recieving Cr 5g, 6 times per day for 3 days, the amount of Cr retrieved in the urine was 40% the first day, 61% day 2, and 68% day 3.
These results suggest that the greatest uptake of Cr into muscle occurs in the initial stages of supplementation and that maintaining a high loading dose results in increasing waste.
Also there is a Cr uptake threshold of 155mmol/kg.day.wg = max limit throughout range of athlete weights is about 20-30g/day.
Necessary maintenance phases of 5 and certainly 10g/day are also probably exagerated. Hultman et al (1992) also found that high elevated levels of muscle Cr were maintained with supplementation of only 2g/day.
Adam - I recommend whey protein concentrate instead of isolate as my understanding is that the extra processing (which increases price) removes a number of molecular weighted proteins which are beneficial to the body e.g. immune system.
I NEVER detract from whole food usage yet supplements can be very convenient. Remember the arrogance of scientists and pony-tailed marketers making claims of “this is all you need”; then discovering 128 possible synergistic chemical compounds in the whole food in the years after the “supplement claim”.
Adam - your statement of macronutrient ratio for testosterone release brings up some great points. Here is the actual paper;
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/82/1/49
When reading it a number of points need mentioning.
NO direct correlation was found between food intake and testosterone levels
If you read it you will see that the food intake was recorded NOT controlled. Very different. Also the discussion pointed out that TOTAL calories, FAT intake and PROTEIN wrt CARBOHYDRATE intake may affect testosterone levels (TL).
Remember these studies point out that the subject with 20% fat intake had lower TL than a subject at 40%. Fine but is that elevation significant? Does the elevation actually lead to an increase in skeletal muscle mass? At a greater rate than the 20% intake athlete?
The study concludes the well documented evidence of the association between the amount of muscle mass stimulated generally is proportional to testosterone release. Again does this increase lead to anything? We very often infer that it does … but it rarely happens or further research is needed to clarify.
This is the leading statement of the discussion
“The primary finding from this investigation was that dietary nutrients may influence resting concentrations of T in young athletic men. However, the resistance exercise-induced increase in T does not appear to be affected by nutritional variables averaged over 17 days”.
It does NOT appear to be the impression you got from the book that “quoted” the study in some form. Golden rule: before you alter your life … check the source!
xlr8 – do not forget intra-muscular cross-sectional area increase will give an augmented level of strength. This combined with adequate adaptation training over time can lead to an increase in contractile proteins. Your not wrong, your statement just expects results a little too rapidly.
Richard Hand - how exactly do you imagine by your example of 0.6g/day through whole foods, that a loading phase of anywhere between 0.3-0.45g/kg/day e.g. 100kg athlete = 30-45grams a day for 5-7 days would be interfered with in any way by an additional 0.6g? Even on a maintenance cycle of 5-10grams a day, how does 0.6g make this “less-efficient”?
Chris - why do you compare the digestive feedback of amino acids against mono and disaccharides? Assuming the gut is normal and pancreatic enzyme production is substantial they are apples and oranges … Likewise if I can digest CHO, why are BCAA’s now not necessary?
Richard
Your example of 2- 4 meals a day amounting to approximately 1.2 - 2.4g of creatine from food may incur wastage on a maintenance regimen of 5g a day. One must also consider absorption rate and hormonal timing i.e. insulin.
I agree with your points in general. Their is much about creatine that we do not know. I have not successfully engineered a range of tests i.e. urine/blood that gives me any definitive answers. Some of my athletes only respond to the rates I quoted and others seem to do fine on simply 5g/day no loading phase. All athletes cycle on and off with no cycle on being longer than 28 days.
Not being critical, but your studies are up to 10 years old. In this topic dont you think thats a little outdated?
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2003 Mar;13(1):112-6
J Sports Med Phys Fitness 2003 Mar;43(1):64-8
Clin Sci (Lond) 2003 Feb;104(2):153-62
Many of these studies partly support your earlier ones. Just a bit more recent.
This one should be extra interesting for you Richard;
J Strength Cond Res 2003 Feb;17(1):26-33
Anibal5
Thanks for the refs.
Of course any new or extra literature is well worth a look. However, on the topic of Cr, older literature may still be solid so long as the variables are controlled.
Can you elaborate on the sentence, ‘Your example of 2- 4 meals a day amounting to approximately 1.2 - 2.4g of creatine from food may incur wastage on a maintenance regimen of 5g a day.’ Not exactly sure what you mean.
But where you say ‘‘one must also consider absorption rate and hormonal timing i.e. insulin.’’ I agree, and if you were eating steak for example, the ingestion of carbs would have to be sufficient to stimulate adequate insulin levels for the life of the Cr absorption.
It is worth noting though, that insulin levels do remain high for some time after blood sugar levels have returned near to baseline, therefore continuous carb ingesting after the meal may not be necessary, so long as meal carb content is high and the meat was easily digestible ie. possibly fish not steak
By the way, personally I would supplement if I wanted to increase Cr levels!
when is the best/appropriate time to consume glutamine, and what’s an adequate number of grams per day?
5 grams following your workouts.
usually 5g first thing in the morning and 5g before bedtime. 5g before workout might be a good idea with BCAAs.
Are you guys really receiving noticable benefits from only 5g of l-glutamine per day? What specifically have you noticed with a dose of 5g?
Just by a giant 5lb tub of glutamine and take it pre and post-workout. I normally throw about 15 grams down my throat in both periods.
As for the other supplements you can prioitize at will. Here are my priorities:
Why the creatine like that? Admittedly I haven’t caught up with all the discussion on creatine consumption but I have never seen anyone take it adhoc like that. 