tempo trainng and VO2max

Other Sports Soccer
1

As everyone knows Vo2max is a very important measure in soccer players. Recent research and old research has shown that to be the case. Many top level soccer fitness trainers believe that you should do runs of 3-4 min to increase the vo2max and other soccer qualities like increased LA threshold. For example the south korean trainer had his team do runs of up to 8 min and down to 3 min. He also had them do repeat sprints for PC improvement from what I understand. And no one can question their great fitness in 2002 world cup. Here is my question, will tempo training increase VO2max like a 3-4 min high intensity run will? Or do we just focus on increasing speed to 100% while only conditioning at 85% of potential because we dont include those types of runs? Please let me know how the tempo run will improve vo2max and why?

Taylor

2

With due respect, you went in wrong direction… VO2max is NOT “needed” in soccer, RSA IS NEEDED! RSA stands for Repeated sprint ability, and some studies shows increased RSA with VO2max, and a gross DOES NOT SHOW relation of RSA (or number of sprints and distance covered in game session) with VO2max nor LA threshold. Also, VO2max and LA threshold are being questioned today in scientific studies…
You should not pursuit an increase in VO2max, but rather RSA, or game performance…
On the other hand, soccer is HIIE sport, so I believe that the same type of “aerobic” conditiong (intervals, tempo) should be done, it should also include starts/stops, change of directions, side shuffles etc…
On the contrary, short continuous runs (8-3mins) will only “drain” players, and develop large quantities of bLA levels, a situation that is not common for soccer game. BUT, dont read this as absolute no-no, just be careful when deciding when and how much of this training to apply to soccer players… This is my opinion!

Here are some links that you may find usable:
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=11426&highlight=homoeostasis
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=11634&highlight=homoeostasis
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=11783&page=6&pp=15&highlight=homoeostasis

If you are interested more in the issue of aerobic capacity and RSA, contact Scott Vass (svass at this site) and ask him for his final paper regarding this issue!

3

Please find me one resource that says Vo2max is not important for soccer, and I will be able to show you many that says it is important. I am not the smartest guy, so i have to trust those that are smart. IN regards to 3-8 min runs draining soccer players, I have never heard that before. I guess some teams like Celtic FC and the South korean national team were wrong. I am open for suggestion as to how to build Vo2max with tempo runs and why it builds the Vo2max with tempo runs.

I have seen so many resources that show Vo2max as vital. I agree with you that it is the RSA that is huge is a game. The ability to pressure the other team throughout a game etc ( if that is your style) I am not advocating the 3-8 min runs as the end all, but ifyou can get to the point where speed is built to 100% and also fitness is built to 100% without using 3-8 min runs then that is great. Is that possible? Or are you developing 100% speed, and only 85% fitness because you cannot maximize speed and fitness with tempo runs? I am open for Ideas please let me know.

Taylor

4

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=7858&highlight=soccer+tempo

You can use the search button first for such questions and many other issues.
Hope it helps! :slight_smile:

5

I played field hockey and my only training was hammer throwing, weights and 2 tempo sessions. I was sport fitter than the guys who had been training for hockey for 3 months.

Not saying its better, I played in the midfield and I normally play defence.

To me the important element for Hockey is acceleration, and sustained speed (repeated efforts over 10-30m)

Just some thoughts

6

Couple of excerpts form Scott Vass final paper:

Bishop and Spencer (2004) examined the importance of VO2 max. in determining repeated sprint ability (RSA) in 20 well-trained female thletes. The subjects consisted of 10 ten members of the Australian Women’s field hockey team (VO2 max.: 54.8 +/- 4.3
ml/kg/min) and 10 endurance trained females (VO2 max.: 56.1 +/- 3), who performed a 5
times 6 second sprint every 30 seconds on a cycle ergometer. As in the Hamilton (1990)
study, the team-sport athletes showed significantly higher peak power in the initial
sprints, total work for all 5 sprints, higher total power decrement over the five sprints.
The endurance trained athletes showed a better ability to maintain relative power output
over the five sprints. However, as there was no significant difference in VO2 max.
between the two groups, Bishop and Spencer concluded that factors other than VO2 max.
may be more important for maintaining RSA. It was suggested that the lack of
correlation found in this study may have been due to the short recovery period (24 s) used
in the study.

Bangsbo and Lindquist (1992) examined performance of elite soccer athletes in:
match performance (both low and high intensity distance performance), a variable
interval treadmill test simulating match play, a variable intermittent endurance test to
fatigue, and a field test simulating match play. The soccer athletes were divided into two
groups to perform the tests (group 1 VO2 max. = 60.4 +/- 1.1; group 2 VO2 max. = 61.2 +/-
1.16) Although a significant relationship was found between VO2 max. and match distance
covered (r = 0.64; p = 0.05), no significant relationship was found for VO2 max. and high
intensity match performance or any of the other test performances. The authors
concluded that VO2 max. was not a does not seem to be an accurate measure of soccerspecific
endurance capacity.

Bangsbo J, Lindquist F. Comparison of various exercise tests with endurance
performance during soccer in professional players. Int J Sports Med 1992;13(2):125-132.

Bishop D, Spencer M. Determinants of repeated sprint ability in well-trained team-sport
athletes and endurance-trained athletes. J Sports Med Phys Fitness 2004; 44: 1-7.

McMillan, K., Helgerud, J., Macdonald, R., Hoff, J. Physiological adaptations to soccer specific endurance training in proffesional youth soccer players. Br J Sports Med 2005;39:273-277

Lehi, my intention is not to insult you anyway, because I am also open minded, and like you, I was not proponent of tempos, and I believed in classical “aerobic” work (like you will see in that thread Nikoluski posted - this was my first disccusion on the site), but as I learned and readed and tryed a lot since that time, I am more proponent in tempo and shuttle runs for aerobic development for team games!
To develop VO2max in tempo runs:

  1. DO NOT CHANGE the intensity of runs over 75% of max speed,. because it will interfere with other, more specific, high intensity work
  2. Increase the distance of tempos and shuttles, but, I believe, under 1 mins runs (or even less)
  3. Decrease the rest intevals —> THIS IS THE KEY

Lehi, please if you have those articles about VO2max, please send them to me… I would be very happy to read them! Anyway, I hope I helped…

7

Duxx,

So what would be a typical session to work on RSA conditioning?

Also in the above post you said that decreasing the rest intervals is key when using tempos for Vo2 max training… but wouldn’t that eventually end up with lactic acid buildup since you’de be going at 75% with little rest between reps… I though LA was bad for soccer training?

Also what do you mean by shuttles?

8

RSA IS dependent on aerobic capacity (among other things), but not on VO2max nor “aerobic capacity” developed by long slow distance running… something that is simmilar to RSA itself is the best method for aerobic development, and that would be tempo and shuttles! Also, more specific sprints/weight circuits could be done, based o time-motion analisys (work/rest), but I think that the game practice will cover this issue…

Regarding tempos and bLA: dont decrease the rest too much, or increase the rest between sets! There is a need for optimal aerobic development, not maximal!

For shuttles choose 20-30m distance, run it back and forth @75 of max speed for 3-4 times. You can also do the side-shuffles, back running, cariocas etc… This will also improve your aerobic capacity and prepare you for more strenuous starts and stop and change of dirrection drill later in the season! Some poligons can be also done…

9

Duxx,

Great conversation. I am really interested in this stuff. First of all, with the longer intervals of 3-4 min, some say the rest interval will not go lower than 3 min. Others might differ a little on that. But as you mentioned if the rest is too short lactate will never be allowed to clear enough.

The faster you recover the more sprints you can do in a game, the more sprints you can do in a game, the higher the tempo of the soccer game. Accoring to the trainer of South korean soccer team for 2002, the 3 min runs will increase recover between sprints. Physiologically I dont understand that exactly. Must be something with increased stroke volume=more blood to the body=more ability to recover faster and get to homeostasis, or at least stop breathing hard because the muscles are getting the oxygen they need in higher quatities which means they can recover faster and feel recovered. By the way that was a lame sentence, but you get the point.

So that is why I think trainers all over the globe are worried about increasing Vo2max in soccer players.

I want someone to tell me this: 3-4 min runs have been shown through science to decrease speed. Or I have done 3-4 min runs extensively and have found through my experience that these type of high intensity interval runs decrease speed.

I come back to the original question, will tempo runs increase VO2max as much as a 3-4 min high intensity intervals.

10

could you give an example of a sprints/weights circuit?

11

Omyss an example would be to run 110 yards in 18 seconds at 70% max speed ( for lower athletes) then in between the run you will do a set of push ups and a core exercise then repeat then phase. It would go something like that. The way you set it up is open to the imagination.

12

that sounds more like tempo

13

Omyss,

I thought you were talking to Duxx to provide an example of how a tempo/weight circuit would look like? What are asking? I dont think I mentioned a weight/sprint circuit

14

Tnx for great discussion here…
Here is a short version of Scott Vass article regarding aerobic development and HIIE performance (RSA)! I believe this will explain you in more detail physiological mechanisms regrading VO2max and RSA! Take a look:
http://www.powerdevelopmentinc.com/abstracts/hiie.html

McMillan et al, stated that 4mins high intensity runs (over a poligon) DO NOT decrease speed, explosivness etc, but done with regular soccer practice (and what was the soccer practice anyway during the study?) I dont know about your experiences with theese types of run, but as I stated before they can induce too much of a bLA, which can indirectly decress speed via greater rest needs… Just a thought!
On the other hand, some author states that running over anaerobic threshold (OBLA) increases peripheral factors of aerobic capacity, while the running below OBLA increase central factors (pumping volume, etc). In HIIE game, the heart DOES NOT have time to “speed up” enough, so I think that for “recovery” (RSA) are more important peripheral factors (hemoglobin, capilarization) and NEURAL factors (better control of blood reditribution, lungs, heart), and for this reasons, the best deal for aerobic development in game sports (HIIE) is running over a OBLA, in intervall manner without allowing too much of bLA to accumulate… The solution: TEMPO!
Steady states runs can be done, but in game itself, there is no steady stated, but the system must all the time “to catch” the stabile state, also, the hip movement in long slow distance runs is too small, so athletes are not prepared for greater hip excursion during a game: The solution: TEMPO, POLIGONS, SHUTTLES!

No! VO2max will be increased more with high intensity runs for less than 6mins! But, again, is your goal in improving VO2max and the results on physiological tests, or the game performance?? Please, do not conlcude that I said that something is wrong, bad or something. No! I just want to say that some things are more OPTIMAL for praticular sport, position, time in the season etc… OPTIMAL is a key word!

could you give an example of a sprints/weights circuit?

I will give you the example for basketball. The time motion analysys showed that the average HI action lasts for about 4sec and the largest for about 13-14sec, with the average low intensity activity lasting 21sec. The 30% of HI activity is a side shuffle (defence slides).
So, you can conduct sprints/poligons with simmilar work to rest ratios, for example designe some poligon consisting of forward run, side shuffles, skip, backward run which last for about 13-14sec to complete, and give the player a rest of about 20sec. This is also highly dependent on player position.
On my opinion, this type of conditioning is provided by the game practice itself, so generaly speaking there is no need for additional training of this types of activity, because it is covered in game tactics simmulations etc (and in more specific way).

For discussion on weight circuit take a look here:
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=11783
They can be used to imporve “work capacity”, but you should look for corret technique all the time! Also, the body circuits (jumping jack, step ups, lunges, squats, bla bla bla) can be also used instead of tempo! I explained this in couple of threads…
Hope I helped!

15

Duxx,

Using exercise sessions of about 3-4 mins will optimize the recovery between sprints. Which means the pace of the game will improve, which means the players will improve performance. So the overall number of sprints throughout the whole game will improve? There is a correlation, I think, between 3-4 min runs, High intensity, and number of sprints in a game. But as you said the 3-4 min runs are not an end all. there is a time and place for everything. I personally think 3-4 min runs would be good for pre seasons in prep for the season and some during the season, to maintain as much as possible the VO2 and recoverability, This would be used on certain weeks where games are low.

16

Lehi, I agree with you on this one! :slight_smile:
I believe that those 3-4mins runs are done at high intensity pace, so this is above OBLA, and I believe it will cause peripheral adaptation (and ability to tolerate bLA) which in turn can help them to speed up recovery between sprints, which can result in greater distance covered during a game (but not higher speed achived which is the result of speed training) or the number of sprints during a game (note that this situation is not pure effect of VO2max or RSA, but also of the game tactics and game situation: if there is no need to run, why would you run during a game)
Also, I agrees with you on: there is time and place for everything (one of my favourite quotes) including this type of training!
I would use this in the off season with some shuttles and poligons to prepare athletes for cutting, stoping etc (for “aerobic development” and base building). But as soon they start practicing HI team drills, or agility drills, I would switch to tempo workout, and kick-out 3-4min runs and shuttles, to allow greater restoration and less joint stress…

17

Duxx,

Do you train soccer teams there is serbia and montenegro? are you here in the USA or over there?

That was a good point that the runs will be increased based on tactics. One of the things from my reading was that South Korea in the 2002 world cup installed an uptempo hi pressure type of system. So they would be doing basically a full court press on the soccer field. And because of their tactics they needed to train accordingly. Bruce arena gave their fitness a good complement.

I wonder if tempo work without the 3-4 min intervals would build the fitness needed to do an up tempo game. I have been thinking the last couple days of a new exercise program built around tempo runs but it would keep the heart rate in the Vo2max build phase. So the tempo training would be done in different blocks. I need to try it out. PHysiologically it makes sense, and also it might allow for better speed adaptations, which will be ideal.

Taylor

18

Tnx for asking, but no! I volunteer as a (student) s&c in one basketball club (in belgrade), but I am going to training 2-3x/w because I only do the warming-up part of training… I am just waiting for off-season to be involved more thouroughly in their preparation (if I get the freedom to be creative, and not to solve things at hoc like now)… Just now I started helping my faculty coleague to prepare for student world and european champ in taekwondo… (my first elite athlete :cool: )
I am hoping to somehow get “over the sea” to “promiced country” :slight_smile: Maybe I will apply for grad studies in USA if I get the scholarship hehe… Do you have some job for me lehi? :smiley:
Anyway, my younger brother is currently in USA , he works on ship as a steward (bartender)!

To solve this issue (regarding 3-4min runs), get some time motion analysis of particular player engaged in “tempo soccer game”, or watch him and use the clockwatch to find out hist work/rest ratios… Maybe this will help you to solve the puzzles… Anyway, try reducing rest during tempo, and soon you will see greater improvements that in 3-4min runs. But, on my opinion this should be considered HI training and planned accordingly!
Please, let us know how you did lehi!

19

I’ve been pretty busy as of late getting our new training facility set up and ready to go, so I don’t have a lot of time to respond here - but Duxx is doing a great job.

Lehi53 - If you want the entire paper, PM me your email address, and I’ll send it to you.

23 - I’ll get it to you sometime this weekend.

I’ll comment on my experiences with soccer athletes when I get the chance (if that happens)

20

Funny you should bring up the whole VO2 max issue…

I train CF style with the speed/tempo days and my lacrosse team makes everyone do fitness testing. So I get on the treadmill for the VO2 max test. The speed of the treadmill goes up every few minutes and you’re supposed to run until you can’t anymore(There’s no oxygen mask or anything). They also measure you’re heart rate at the same time…

So, I start out fine and go up to about 13 minutes or something… then I just get off because I didn’t feel like doing it anymore. The guy running the test was truly amazed at how low my heart rate was throughout the test. He kept telling me he’s never seen anyone with a heart rate that low, so far into the test. Then he asks me why I got off the treadmill… and I just told him. “I don’t care about VO2 max…” :slight_smile: