As ive explained before, i am a soccer player whose main focus is on speed training. I ususally do two speed sessions a week and on the other days i do extensive tempo. However, i am at the point now where i have to get into game condition and the tempo training simply isn’t getting me into that kind of condition…besides, i think of tempo as more of a recovery tool than a way of getting into condition. My question is this: Is it going to hurt my speed if i start doing some endurance workouts on the track such as a 100 followed by a 200, then a 300 and then a 400 then an 800. Then i would do a 400, then a 300 then a 200 and finish it off with a 100. All of these runs would be done at a very challenging pace except for the 100s which would be done at around 18 seconds (i run 11.4 in the 100) Anyway…would this workout hurt my sprinting speed if i didn’t exceed the 75% of my top speed during this workout (in order to keep my CNS fresh for the speed sessions) Please help me with this question.
I am at the same point where I’m getting into game condition, although, doing a combination of speed work, weights, plyos, and TEMPO! is what has been preparing me for my season for the last 5 months. Without the tempo work on alternate days, the rest of the speed work, etc would be useless, tempo is key. Sure it is a means of increasing recovery rate, but it does tons more, read through it on CFTS.
Instead of just doing your regular tempo routine (whatever it may be) why not start incorperating simple soccer drills into it. thats what ive started doing. At the end of each 100m tempo (~70%), ill work on some fundamental soccer skills. I’ll even set up cones, run through drills, juggle, just simple stuff. Even the simplest of drills can prove to be more challenging once the moderate fatigue of tempo sets in, so you have focus that much more.
You know, you’ll never run 100, 200, or 300m straight in a soccer game? Why start now? Soccer is short sprints of up to 30m, then walking, maybe joggin, and more bursts of sprints. Its not so much endurance that soccer requires as it is speed reserve. And if you keep doing speed work with the combination of tempo, thats what you should develop.
I just came back from a tempo workout, 1000m, 100m intervals at 70%, soccer drills at each end, and im pretty tired, going over 75% would be difficult! its quality vs quantity.
Smarrs: when you do this type of tempo training with the soccer touches in between each tempo run, are you wearing flats or soccer cleats? Also, how much time do you take in between each 100m tempo run?..even if i do 30 100meter tempo runs at 70% with just 30 seconds between each, i still just dont feel that tired by the end of the workout to where im in proper game condition… Then again, ive never worked with this type of program before, so maybe by the time the season rolls around i will realize that i am in much better condition than i thought. I think ill start doing the soccer drills between each tempo run like you suggested. Do you just keep a soccer ball on each end of the field (wherever you do your tempo) and work with it when you reach that end of the field?
If you dont mind, could you give me an idea of your workout schedule/week? You said that you incorporate speed work, weights, plyos and tempo into your regimen. How do you fit all of that into your program and have enough time to cover all of that? Thanks for the help. I appreciate it
I go bare feet to warm up, and wear my soccer cleats for the rest of the workout. If you would like to see my weekly schedule, you can check out my training journal, Training Journal:). I fit it all in by having a dedicated coach, having 3-4hr training sessions 3 times a week, doing tempo every other day, working only 2 days/week and having one day off.
you say you run 11.4 in the 100m? Then 75% of that would be 15.2sec. (11.4/.75) if you can run 30 100m in 15.2 sec with only 30sec rest in // and still not feel tired!, then you are fit and ready for the season… and then some. I suppose on grass it would be slower, but stil. I mean, your only looking for moderate fatigue anyways. 3000m is A LOT too, i might do 1000m - 2200m tempo sessions.
btw, what makes you think your not conditioned for the up-coming soccer season?
Thanks for the info Smarrs. I guess the reason for my having a hard time believing that im fit enough is because during the last few seasons i haven’t been fit enough coming into the season, and i really dont want to ever feel that way again during preseason camp…but i also have never done a program like the one im doing now where i am doing so much tempo. Im probably much more fit that i think (i just want to leave no stone unturned)… ill probably realize that once the season starts.
My 100 meter is probably much better than 11.4 by now…the last time i was timed it was 11.4 and that was a long time ago, and i definitely feel like ive gotten faster since then (thats probably why im less tired during my tempo workouts nowadays, beceause i should actually be running the tempo faster than i am).
[b]One thing that i would like to point out: Since ive joined this site and researched the forum, ive discovered the importance of keeping the CNS fresh and not overtrained. One of my biggest fears during the soccer season is overtraining my CNS. My team practices hard during the fall season every day Mon-Fri. Since i am an offensive player (center forward and outside midfield) i do a lot of heavy duty sprinting (especially up the sidelines when im playing outside midfield). At the beginning of the season i always come in fresh and am by far the fastest player on the team, but as the season goes on i definitely feel like my speed starts to decrease due to overactivity (or an overtrained CNS) As the season goes on i feel more and more sluggish during practices and by game day i usually feel tired, weak and lethargic. Do you think that this feeling of weakness is due to an overtrained CNS during the season, or is it much harder than that to overtrain my CNS? If my lethargic feelings and my decrease in speed are indeed due to an overtrained CNS, what can i possibly do to prevent the overtraining of my CNS with all of the hard sprinting i am doing during the season?? I cant just skip practice and tell the coach that i need 2 days off each week. What do you suggest? Again....thanks for all the help.[/b]Maybe try one speed day and one day with some repeat sprints, say 10x20m + 6x40m or something similar with shorter breaks, maybe 30 sec for the 20m and 1m for the 40m, just a suggestion as this would be more specific than the workout you outlined, although some good aerobic work is also beneficial.
May also want to check out this thread:
Repeated-Sprint Ability
Irong,
If you are implementing those SE2 runs (100,300,400etc) put them on hard days instead of HI work and not tempo! Keep volume of this kind of work low (1 session/w later in prep period) if you choose to do them. Anyway, I think this kind of work is “non-specific” but it can tax the both “anaerobic” and “aerobic” system and thus increase your aerobic capacity — BUT please NOTE that transfer of aerobic capacity (measured as VO2max) to field (as RSA) has platoue phenomena — thus when you reach a certain point in your aerobic capacity additional improvements will not lead to better performance of the field. So, use 3-4weeks to develop aerobic system (off-season) and then swithc to maintenance 1-2x/w (tempo). Game practices will cover most of endurance needs, but will not cover SPEED and STRENGHT.
Repeated sprints with short recovery, as suggested by popequique can be also done later in prep period on HI days, but I think that the actual game practice will cover this very issue. Take a look at Bangbsoo’s “Fitness training for soccer: scientific approach” book for specific drill s with a ball to develop “aerobic” & “anaerobic” capacity. The book is nothing special but it will give you basic ideas.
For tempo progression, try: (Simmilar progression to svass program)
wk1:
100+100+100++
100+100+100++
100+100+100++
100+100+100
100m run below 70% (upper limit)
- represent rest of 40sec
++ represent rest of 1’30’’
wk2
100+100+100++
100+200+100++
100+200+100++
100+100+100
100m run below 70% (upper limit)
200m run 2x100time + 2-4sec
- represent rest of 40sec
++ represent rest of 1’30’’
wk3
100+100+100++
100+200+100+100++
100+200+100+100++
100+100+100
100m run below 70% (upper limit)
200m run 2x100time + 2-4sec
- represent rest of 40sec
++ represent rest of 1’30’’
wk4
100+100+100++
100+200+200+100++
100+200+200+100++
100+100+100
100m run below 70% (upper limit)
200m run 2x100time + 2-4sec
- represent rest of 40sec
++ represent rest of 1’30’’
wk5 and later
Same as wk4, but progress by reducing recovery between reps and sets. You can reduce rep rest (+) by 5 sec each week till 1:1 work/rest ratio.
I hope I get you some ideas!
P.S.
You can run 2x5x200m with 60sec rest and 2min rest (sets)
I think my coach told me that a soccer game won’t tax the ol’ CNS much at all. Its difficult to come across a full-on sprint for more than 20m in a soccer game without coming across an oponent/sideline/diagonal run/etc…i think you need to be running near a pb (as an elite athlete), or lifting extremely heavy waits to really fatigue your CNS (which would involve lots of rest) but im not sure…im just an athlete like yourself as well.
Maybe sleep could be the problem? with all the school, sports, h/w, work, etc… could be diet, drinking, stress, who knows?
anyways, good luck in your season, i know mine starts next week:D later.
This is not unlike Charlie’s Big Circuit (GPP DVD). Thus if you keep within the 65-75% range, this should work out fairly well.
Do 8 x 200m in 32 seconds, with 30 seconds between reps and tell me that it’s “too easy” for you. Tempo will get you into game shape easily.
Are you weight training during the year?
Blinky,
I am not sure as I often get confused about the tempo and cumulative effect of efforts, but if you propose your 8x200 in 32 sec w/30 sec rest, would this task not be somewhat challenging for an 11.4 guy which would probably correlate to say 23.5 200. Shouldnt the point of extensive tempo be to be easy and therefore recover the athlete. Also say the athlete is a 24 200 guy, at 75% with only 30 sec rest I would consider the cumulative effect to be intensive tempo perhaps even for a 23 guy at 72% of pr (not of practice 100% effort). I would be more likely to use something similar to Duxx in terms of tempo as to not stress the cns. Extensive tempos main goal as I see it is recovery, other measures can be used to better repeat sprint endurance.
Smarrs,
You do not need to be running near pb times or lifting heavy weights to tax the cns repeated near maximal short sprints could definately take a toll on the cns. I am not very familiar with soccer, however I would guess over the course of a game an athlete could repeat sprints between 10-30m more than say 20 times, although maybe not the most taxing workout plausible in conjunction with daily practices multiple submax sprints would definately have a toll on the cns.
Irong is saying that tempo isn’t getting him in condition. So I proposed a tempo workout with shortened recoveries to prove a point. The point being that tempo can be very challenging by manipulating intensities and recovery times(as long as they’re below the 75% threshold).
I understand what you were trying to get at, and I guess my retort is not aimed at you but just in general, say you go 1x200 at 75% or 72% which ever assuming a 23 or 24 guy. Okay that is one effort and it is at 75% the upper limit of extensive tempo. So the next run if again done at whichever percent will have no carryover on the overall cumulative effort. So technically you could go 20x200 at 75% and not tax the cns anymore or a rest of 30 sec or 5min between each rep will make no difference.
I am saying that when running the tempo around the 70+% mark I would not lower the rest too far as the cumulative effect will be over 75% effort and tax the cns, obviously 75% is not a steadfast mark and would vary for each individual somewhat, however the point is not to push the 75% barrier for extensive tempo, which may have a detrimental effect on recovery.
Like I said IMO tempo = recovery method not as much a conditioning method.
First of all, thank you guys (duxx, Smmars,popequique, lkh for all of the help and suggestions. It is appreciated.
Do 8 x 200m in 32 seconds, with 30 seconds between reps and tell me that it’s “too easy” for you. Tempo will get you into game shape easily.
–Blinky: i am not saying that i am in super shape or anything. When i first started doing tempo i struggled handily with 10x100 with 60 seconds rest between…but now that ive been doing tempo religiously for half a year it really has become fairly easy to the point where i can handle 25x100 with now only 25 seconds between each run without much problem… But let me stress that i really coundn’t care less about improvement in tempo performance…to me the main thing that counts is speed improvement. I want to get in shape for soccer, but speed improvement is still #1 to me. I posted earlier that my 100m PB was 11.4, but now i truly believe that i am a faster sprinter than that b/c of all the training i have done the past 6 months. Maybe that is why the tempo seems easier to me now…b/c i have improved my 100m speed and now need to speed up my tempo runs to get them to 70%. I am always hesitant to speed up during tempo running b/c of the fear that i might cause pointless stress on my CNS, which would have a negative impact on my speed training session the following day. It is a confusing balancing act with me.
Are you weight training during the year?
-I have not been doing nearly as much weight training as i should be doing. Honestly, i hit the weights roughly once every 2 weeks nowadays. I used to base almost all of my training exclusively around weights (was not playing soccer at the time) but i tore a muscle in my left shoulder doing very heavy dumbell bench presses… (the much needed time off from weights is what actually drove me back to soccer and i have lost a LOT of muscle mass and strength in the process…but i started working on my sprinting again, especially my form which needed a lot of improvement)…but now it is much easier to run again and i am playing soccer again. I went from 205 lbs to 185 lbs and i prob had less bodyfat when i was 205, but i am much more flexible now and my sprinting speed has improved. I need to start hitting the weights again on a regular basis to get some explosive strength back.
Again…thank you guys. I appreciate you sharing you knowledge with me…b/c mine is quite limited. I just printed out this entire thread and am taking it back to my apartment to study and review. I just want to learn as much as possible and improve as much as i can…ive got a lot to prove to the guys i used to play soccer with.
Irong,
Tempo’s 75% rule is an upper threshold, not a point. I usually do 100m run for 20secs. If you want to increase tempo speed (to 75% of your NEW speed) then decrease volume and increase rest — basically start the whole cycle from the beggining.
Did you try submax shuttles? Same thing as tempo, just you cut the 100m distance in 3x30m runs (back & forth) — thus you got some start/stop/acceleration action. This submax change of direction will prepare you for more streuous work. The volume of shuttles is 30-40% less than tempo.
When you reach certain volume of tempo, keep it and try to reduce rest. Do not overdo-it! In the beggining tempo will be “developmental” but as the time passes it will become “maintenance/active recovery”! Remember the platoue effect of aerobic capacity to field transfer.
Hope it helps a little!
They’re all inter-related. Speed improvements will improve tempo performance(because you are running at a lower % of your max) which will improve your performance on the soccer field.
This also works the other way…
Improvements in tempo will allow you to get more quality work done in speed sessions(by improving your recovery in between reps & numerous other factors…) which will improve your on-field performance.
Weights are very important. Strength is the quickest quality to gain and lose. You should be doing some strength work atleast 2 times/week.
Think about strength for a second… if you are stronger then someone then you don’t have to expend the same amount of energy doing the same tasks. It’s one of the greatest supplements around…
-Should i be doing my strength work right after my speed sessions? I know that Charlie has mentioned that it might be best to hit the weights after a speed session (though this might lower the amount of weight i can handle in the weight room) in order to provide ample time for recovery for the next speed session later that week…or should i do my strength work on a totally seperate day? (like on a tempo day…weights followed by tempo). I know that working with heavy weights taxes the CNS…so i gotta balance this properly
-What days should i place my strength work on in relation to my speed session days? (i do 2 speed sessions a week…sometimes 3).
Also…when in the weight room should i train for pure strength (very heavy weight and low reps)…or should i lower the weight and train for explosiveness? What do you suggest?
Thanks for all the help.