Thats the exact set up i did last fall that worked really well. But can I do speed work on upper body days? I feel like that set up doesn’t suit my lower body as well because i can handle 2x per week lower body. At least I could back when my poundage was 100 pounds lighter.
As for the body weight gain… Yes that was my original intent. I absolutely need to gain weight, I haven’t gained much bw at all. Its why i asked if:
bodyweight gains lead to strength gains even with 1-5 rep range workouts.
OR
hypertrophy style training leads to larger muscles and increased maximal strength when transitioned.
You can’t grow new muscle fiber, you can enlarge your existing fibers (hypertrophy) or improve your ability to use what you have (strength)…or both. You can only gain weight by increasing your caloric intake above your caloric expenses.
Or should I spend 4-6 weeks doing 3x8 and adding some mass and then lower the reps to the 1-5 range? Too most ppl this maybe isn’t too much of a concern. But my bench press is embarrassing. I haven’t made considerable progress in 4 years now…!!
That’s old style linear periodization. Whether you call it complex, concurrent or block training, working both qualities, mass and strength, at the same time is the better way to go.
I like to train speed early in the day on a lower body day, but there is no reason you can’t do speed before upper body as long as you have adequate recovery before the next speed session.
As for the body weight gain… Yes that was my original intent. I absolutely need to gain weight, I haven’t gained much bw at all. Its why i asked if:
bodyweight gains lead to strength gains even with 1-5 rep range workouts.
OR
hypertrophy style training leads to larger muscles and increased maximal strength when transitioned.
Both are correct, which is why I like to train strength and hypertrophy concurrently. Larger muscles have a higher capacity for strength, and stronger muscles can handle more load leading to improved hypertrophy. But you must eat an excess of calories in order to gain mass. You might try adding a protein shake or two, or possibly even a weight gain shake.
when you posted the alabama football offseason workout they were doing high volume strength and speed with like 20 sets of power cleans each day 3x per week. Werent they?
Im curious why you think 3 strength and speed sessions of low volume is too much?
Is there a way i can upload an excel file onto CF.com? i have a program written up that im really excited about. :rolleyes:
Not sure what your goals are now. You originally were talking about your maxes moving up but you want to move bodyweight up too? Not that hard to do but you don’t need the reps to be that high for that long especially if strength is your primary goal. Four weeks at the most maybe every 4-6 months. You can get an occasional volume bump to begin a block at times after the strength endurance block (3 x 10 possibly for four weeks gradually increasing the int.) as in the intro micro being for 5 x 5 or 3 x 10 then descending into 3 x 5 and possibly 3 x 3 during the block with the unload week being another, lighter 3 x 3 or 3 x 2. The first week of a block having higher volume serves as the overreaching week.
I am proposing not that you go super- light week one but possibly not as heavy as you seem to have done in the past-based largely on your comment about bp and your first week of inclines. As I said earlier, I have seen time an again people start a four week block where week one works them so hard they have no where to progress to. If they move up by too much week 2 they often can’t go up week 3.
If the volume does not stay constant during a four week period as in strength end./hypertrophy I would suggest dropping the volume down as intensification takes place.
Not a big fan of the BFS rep scheme.
If you have not done higher reps in some time then perhaps 3 x 10 for 3-4 weeks.
Next weeks 3 x 5, 3 x 5, 3 x 5, 3 x 3 with all but the last week ascending in intensity.
Then another block starting with an overreaching week of 5 x 5, then 3 x 5, 3 x 3, then a light 3 x 2.
If you are removed from high reps for an extended period of time but not so long since doing a dedicated strength end. block, start a block, only in the off or pre-season with a single week of 3 x 10 then 3 x 5, 3 x 5, 3 x 5 (or 3 x 3).
I would not recommend doing 6 straight weeks of the same reps-and the weights that would be associated with those reps. Change a bit more frequently as in every 3-4 weeks. It appears as you get away from true strength work for too long and then when you do it, you don’t spend enough time, relatively speaking in that range.
What improved my strength more than anything was Bulgarian style lifting, maximums everyday, I litterally increased my squat by 25kg in 4 weeks after a 2 year plateu, as soon as I went back to traditional methods, plateu again.
Now obviously this type of training is not suitable for use with sprinting, so a compromise must be made. What I found incredibly effective was two exercises per training session for 8 sets of 2 reps. When capable of completeing 8 sets of 3 then increase the weight. This was the system of training used by the legendary strongman Doug Hepburn. Example:
Monday: Squat: 90-95% x 2reps x 8sets
Bench: 90-95% x 2reps x 8sets
Chin ups: max reps x 1-3 sets
Wednesday: Deadlift or rack pull and bench press.
Friday: Squat: 90-95% x 2reps x 8sets
Bench: 90-95% x 2reps x 8sets
Hyperextension: 1 set x 5reps
Reverse hyper: 1 set x 5reps
Hyper complex: 1 set x 5reps
I agree with Pioneer that you should change your rep scheme fairly frequently, but I still disagree that lifting with moderate loads most of the time is beneficial. Lower load or low volume workouts should come at the END of a microcycle, when you feel overtrained or when your numbers plateau. When that occurs, reduce volume for a week, even two if needed, then switch exercises. You could do this every 3-4 weeks (benchpress, boardpress, incline press) as well as accessory exercises (close grip bench, dumbell incline press, weighted dips).
You can also cycle your rep schemes on a weekly basis…
Week 1
Primary 5 x 5
Week 2
Primary 3 x 3
Aux. 3 x 8
Week 3
Primary 4 x 2
Aux. 3 x 10
And as I mentioned before, if you really want to increase strength, include sets in the 1-3 rep range at near maximal loads. If you want to increase mass, include sets in the 8 rep range pushing fairly close to failure and increase your calorie intake, especially protein. You don’t have to max out every workout, and you don’t have to go to failure, but you need to lift close to max on a regular basis, and by max I mean the rep max with whatever rep scheme your using.
Rest and recovery is important, however cruising along lifting with loads that are fairly easy, considering the rep range, is a waste of time, IMHO.
I am not advocating moderate loads throughout the block, only not going so heavy in the first week(particularly) that it serves as inducing more fatigue than stimulation with week two heavier still. In general, though, the best executed, results producing schemes I’ve seen have been mostly submaximal with only week 3 or 4 (in a 4 week intensification scheme) should be performed at maximal levels.
If all you are doing is lifting, then the intensities can be increased somewhat in my opinion but when you have others stressors/high intensity elements present in the program, being a bit conservative is more beneficial to obtaining results in both the lifting and the more important sport performance.
I disagree that you need to lift close to maximal levels on a regular basis. This so compromises your ability to recover that the other elements in the program have to suffer. I think he’s doing more than just lifting. If he was only lifting than perhaps the weights could be pushed up a bit more but I would not suggest by much.
Low volume and low load should come at the end of a cycle for sure but the volume can also be dropped throughout the block to obtain the overreaching effect. In some blocks the volume might stay constant for 2-3 weeks but the ones I’ve typically used have dropped off throughout.
I think if you and I compared actual plans we would be very close…its just in the wording. And as long as volume and frequency are controlled, and adequate time is taken between similar workouts (at least 72hrs) and recovery weeks are used as needed, recovery will not be an issue.
I agree that every workout cannot be maximal in terms of intensity. In fact, I think you can make great progress NEVER lifting maximally. But by that I mean intensity, or 1RM. I think you can make great strength gains doing doubles with your 3RM, maybe pushing to an actual 3RM or even a 2RM every three or four workouts. BUT, I think you need to lift close to failure, or close to the rep max, in most work sets. I’m not counting those sets used to pyramid up to a weight, but you should quickly get up to your work sets and they should be performed at a very high effort with a load close to the rep max you are using. Another way to put it would be to leave only one rep in the tank on your work sets, and occasionally leaving none.
However, when most athletes think in terms of submaximal, they are also thinking in terms of effort, so I believe it is important to make the disctinction and why I think you need to be careful with the term ‘submaximal’. When I think in terms of submaximal, I think in terms increasing the number of reps to say 5 per set (for strength) or to around 8 for hypertrophy. This higher rep scheme requires a lower load, but that does not mean the effort can’t still be very high. I like to back off slightly in week 1 as you do, because there is a jump in volume from the recovery period. After that, its high effort lifting for 2-4 weeks or until the next recovery week is necessary. However, anytime you feel strong in the gym, I think you should take advantage of it. I have hit many PRs, including a recent PB after a long layoff, when I had expected to go in and just have a good solid workout.
I hate lifting less than full intensity. I don’t have a coach so I always feel like I’m cheating myself. But that doesn’t mean I’m overtaining or going to failure on every set every day either. I go to failure on one exercise on one set twice per week. On flat bench and squat.
My squat has improved tremendously… over 100 pounds in 13 working weeks. Bench press has been relatively stagnant since week 7.
I hate lifting less than full intensity. I don’t have a coach so I always feel like I’m cheating myself. But that doesn’t mean I’m overtaining or going to failure on every set every day either. I go to failure on one exercise on one set twice per week. On flat bench and squat.
My squat has improved tremendously… over 100 pounds in 13 working weeks. Bench press has been relatively stagnant since week 7.
If you lift like this for a long period of time then you will get stale-as your bench has. Don’t train to failure. If you elect to do so only do it once every 3-4 weeks. While it may have worked with your squat, it clearly is not since you state you have leveled off for months now. There is really no need to go to failure but if you do so, do it infrequently.
Sometimes you get stronger by going lighter. Especially as a true unload week. You have to trust that backing off or not blowing it out every week is not necessary.
I can’t argue with you or with anyone really because how much my bench has suffered, but i have never read anything like that. I’ve read westside stuff, stuff on here, joe defranco, BFS, kelly baggetts stuff, critical bench.com, I can’t recall ever reading anything that suggested putting less than a full effort into a strength workout. In fact, I feel like I put less effort in sometimes than what some of those guys do.
Heck, westside maxes out in some variation every week. I do a 1 set to failure, sometimes not even doing more than 1 or 2 upper body lifts.
I think with all this workout advice and set and rep schemes and loading and deloading and what to do and what not to do… It all comes down to me having a poor diet. Im not gaining weight and not putting on any muscle. I get the feeling that I could go train with louie simmons or Joe Defranco themselves, and not get any stronger so long as I eat my 2000 calorie diet.
I need to make more of a commitment to my diet and I really believe there are a lot of workout programs out there that will work. Theres lots of strong people in this world, and even more workouts… but none of them will work if you aren’t doing the things necessary outside of the gym… ie: diet, sleep, gain weight, recovery, massage, whatever you gotta do.
I can’t argue with you or with anyone really because how much my bench has suffered, but i have never read anything like that. I’ve read westside stuff, stuff on here, joe defranco, BFS, kelly baggetts stuff, critical bench.com, I can’t recall ever reading anything that suggested putting less than a full effort into a strength workout. In fact, I feel like I put less effort in sometimes than what some of those guys do.
Heck, westside maxes out in some variation every week. I do a 1 set to failure, sometimes not even doing more than 1 or 2 upper body lifts.
I think with all this workout advice and set and rep schemes and loading and deloading and what to do and what not to do… It all comes down to me having a poor diet. Im not gaining weight and not putting on any muscle. I get the feeling that I could go train with louie simmons or Joe Defranco themselves, and not get any stronger so long as I eat my 2000 calorie diet.
I need to make more of a commitment to my diet and I really believe there are a lot of workout programs out there that will work. Theres lots of strong people in this world, and even more workouts… but none of them will work if you aren’t doing the things necessary outside of the gym… ie: diet, sleep, gain weight, recovery, massage, whatever you gotta do.
As for my squat, I think Ive probably just gotten relatively lucky with my gains. I’ve probably just been making beginner noob gains and those will eventually stop once I hit my peak.
In other words, my body is capable of squatting lets say 350 at my current size and bench pressing 250. Right now I squat 325 and bench 250. In order for me to keep going up or possibly even make quicker gains, Im going to have to add some muscle and get bigger.
I set that PR on bench press a little less than 4 years ago at a bodyweight of 200 and now I weigh 212. At that time, I could only squat 255. SO, although I’ve gone up in bodyweight, it was probably mostly in my legs and other areas other than my chest and triceps (it has, trust me)… almost like my body was balancing itself out.
So… lets say over the next few months I get my body weight up to 225 or 230 (still relatively thin for someone who is 6 feet 5!) I bet I can get my squat up to 365 or 385 or whatever and my bench press up to 285 or 300. Then hopefully i can shed some fat and get back to a solid 220 and my speed will really tone up.
(i intentionally left all of my speed work in this post, so don’t worry about that
As for my squat, I think Ive probably just gotten relatively lucky with my gains. I’ve probably just been making beginner noob gains and those will eventually stop once I hit my peak.
In other words, my body is capable of squatting lets say 350 at my current size and bench pressing 250. Right now I squat 325 and bench 250. In order for me to keep going up or possibly even make quicker gains, Im going to have to add some muscle and get bigger.
I set that PR on bench press a little less than 4 years ago at a bodyweight of 200 and now I weigh 212. At that time, I could only squat 255. SO, although I’ve gone up in bodyweight, it was probably mostly in my legs and other areas other than my chest and triceps… almost like my body was balancing itself out.
So… lets say over the next few months I get my body weight up to 225 or 230 (still relatively thin for someone who is 6 feet 5!) I bet I can get my squat up to 365 or 385 or whatever and my bench press up to 285 or 300. Then hopefully i can shed some fat and get back to a solid 220 and my speed will really tone up.
(i intentionally left all of my speed work in this post, so don’t worry about that
Diet is key, but you have improved in the squat, so how does that jive? As you said, most of the strength coaches known for getting their athletes bigger and stronger lift heavy and hard with fairly high volumes.
I have seen and spoken to dozens of athletes who have been stuck at a weight for long periods of time. However I have never trained or trained with anyone that this has happened to. Everyone makes progress if you lift correctly. You may have to gain mass, but if mass isn’t a problem, that makes it easier.
And to Pioneer’s last comment, I don’t believe you will plateau if you are…
It’s much easier to train at maximal levels more often if you don’t do anything but lift. However, if you are an athlete and doing sprint work, jumps, med ball throws, position specific work etc. etc you have to pick your battles and realize that you are also, if training properly, often putting maximal efforts into those as well. Something has to give. You simply can’t do everything maximally at once. Think optimal rather than maximal. Yes, there are times for max weights but it’s not all of the time.
Put a full effort into the training but there is no need to finish every set or workout with nothing left/no reps in the tank, so to speak. There should always be quality present but each time you train should not be about training at 100% intensity. Early in the block, it’s more important to have more reps left but by the end of the block (week 3 or 4) they have 0-1 rep left at the end of the worksets.
Often times I have athletes who’s bench, in particular, stalls out-for whatever reason it’s not usually their squat that levels off. In almost every case, I get them to reduce their set-rep maxes and by the end of the block, their weights have improved. We lift off of percentages of set-rep maxes and not single set rm’s or 1rm’s.
For example an overreaching week/intro. micro. might be:
week 1 at 85% of their best for 5 x 5,
week 2 at 90% of their best for 3 x 5,
week 3 at 95-100% of their best for 3 x 3
week 4 at 75-80% of their best for 3 x 2.
Most of the weeks are actually a range so the first week is actually 85-90% for 5 x 5, 90-95 for 3 x 5, etc.
