Strenght Training for Begginers: Loading Approach vs. Learning Approach

The Forums Strength
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My own opinion is that Tudor Bompa have set excellent “mind box” explaining western periodization (linear periodization) and that a lot of coahces are trapped inside that box — thus they ussually approach to training begginers with this approach: heavy volume - low intensity — including myself! But is this really neccesary??? Is it really neccesary that begginers use 15reps in squat? Is this kind of Loading, provocing “Anatomical adaptation” ---- whatever that be — really smart thing to do?

Another approach is Qualitative approach — Learning approach. Thus you simply use enough weight (progressing) that the athlete is able to do and maintain perfect form. For example instead of doing 2x15, 3x10, 4x8, 5x5 for weeks in squating (linear-western periodization) you just do 5x5 with easiliy progressing weight — low reps allow for great form. Also, it would be great if the number of exercises is greater in the beggining and thus allow athlete to learn them, and when you swithc exercises in later programs , that athlete is “acustomed” to them and thus avoids DOMS…
Another stuff with this approach is to avoid unnecesary mmass increase if it is not your goal!

I would love to propose couple of questions to be answered here in this thread:
— What is Anatomical adaptation phase and is it really neccessary with begginers
— How to progress to serious weight with begginers without mmass increase and without injury
— Should kids (under14) avoid serious weights like 5RM and do only “anatomical adaptation” weights (8-15RM)

I have more question, but I will wait for the discussion to come!

Looking forward to some great insights!

Think outside the box!

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No answers, just thoughts…

For beginners of any age I generally like to you sets of 8-10. Inilially i’m not to concerned with the load. As I feel that the postural muscles (stabilizers) are getting taxed far greater than the prime movers. Also, with the beginners I work with they can benefit from mmass.

Regarding the idea of fewer reps for anyone exercise, but more exercises in any one session. I’ve found the athlete doesn’t have the fitness (mental of physical) to handle a large number of exercises.

Just some thoughts… :o

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The goal for AA is to develop tendons and ligaments at the same rate as skeletal musculature. If you develop the muscles at a faster rate than tendons/ligaments the athlete has a higher risk of injury. You also want to build a strong foundation (ligaments/tendons) before building a house (muscles); otherwise, your shitty foundation will collapse your house under any kind of stress (remember the 3 little pigs). You are also providing training variety so they will still be excited after a couple of months/years.

That being said I used to do 4 sets at 6RM for every exercise when I was in Grade 10/11 and I never got injured! Eventually, my tendon/ligament strength increased over the long run. Not recommended, but I tell it like it is.

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Thanks for your replys guys!

Yes, I agree with you here SVS! But…
Here are some interesting quotes from “Designing Resistance training”, Flack & Kraemer, 2004:

“However, typically muscle fiber hypertrohy has been shown to require more than 16 workouts to show significant increase” —p. 65

“As the duration of training increases (>10 weeks), muscle hypertrophy eventually takes place and contributes more than neural adaptation to the strength and power gain obeserved” —p. 67

“Muscle fiber cross-sectional area changes do not necessarily reflect the magnitude of changes in the whole muscle cross-sectional area determined by image systems (MRI, CAT scans). This lack of relationship may be related to the possible need for several different exercises of training angles to stimulate the entire cross-sectional area of a whole muscle, whereas changes in a specific fiber may be brought about by only one exercise” —p.67

So, your opinion that “…If you develop the muscles at a faster rate than tendons/ligaments the athlete has a higher risk of injury” may be untrue for the begginers, because they start to build mmass only after 6-8weeks! Also, the testosterone response after the training is VERY LOW compared to experienced lifters!

Anyway, I would rather use 10setsx5reps (with 15RM load) than 2x15reps with 15RM with begginers ans slowly increase the weight over time. Various angles should be also used (grips width, stance, various exercises) to stimulate the musculosceletam system from various angles! AA phase (introduction, learning, GPP) can be done with other auxilary exercises like push-ups, pull-ups, medball throws etc.

I would also use simmilar load for major lifts from time to time with kids… if the form is perfect!! But I would stick most of training volume in 8-15RM zone. Again this doesn’t mean using large reps in sets—it can mean using greater overall volume of a given weigh by using more set number of exercises number.

Regarding the idea of fewer reps for anyone exercise, but more exercises in any one session. I’ve found the athlete doesn’t have the fitness (mental of physical) to handle a large number of exercises.

I ment using a larger number of exercises in a week structure, not in a particular session. In a given session 5-8 exercises can be done (counting major + auxilary). It is good to teach them various exercises at the beggining to stimulate muscle from various angles and to switch exercises more easily when needed.

what do you think on this?

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To clarify, we are talking about the someone who has no training bakground at all?

If so personally I would rather keep it to a few exercises and most of those simply bodyweight. In my experience most youngsters up to 14 struggle completing basic exercises (push ups, chins, single leg squats) with body weight iusing correct form. IMHO those and various medicine ball and ab exercises are sufficient for the first couple of months at least.

From there? hmmm what about a program that focus on correcting muscaular imbalances? Why build on a base that is flawed? (a discussion point not necessarily a recomendation)

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True…

I would follow Pakewi’s opinion that we should forget about specific loading parameters and direct our attention to movement quality and learning. Loading comes later. (correct me if I am wrong here pakewi).

again it is much easier to teach someone to squat using les reps in a set with larger number of sets than with 2-3 sets with 15reps. Why? Because, you have more time and attempts to correct stuff, more time you go under the bar, its is easier and athletes direct its attention to quality!
Some easier and well known exercises should be used for AA purposes, like BW exercises (altough 99% of sub14 athletes don’t know to do correct squat — first hand experience) and medball throws.

Interesting…
I have one athlete that is huge potential and have kiphosis and round shoulders due short/stiff pecs and abs. We kicked abwork (curls — we do only isometrics, some sort of PhisTherapy stuff) and horizontal pressing movements (push-ups, bench). I emphasise horiyontal pulling motions and instead of hor press we use vertical presses (alternating DB press etc). Great ammount of shoulder cirlcle is also done with pec stretches.
I hope you ment on this…
— Every programm should be individualized, altought there are some general and true principles in programm design. Only small adjustments are make!

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That is exactly what I meant, the concern I have is that too many coaches / trainers prescribe a general program without any individualization and don’t address deficiencies and needs. I understand how this happens, convenience and sheer volume of athletes.

Some may argue that the greatest need is simply increased strenght and to some degree they are correct. I am not neccessarily suggesting sport specific training just a program as you outlined that aims at improving performanceby fixing what is broke :smiley: .

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This is where I personally start. Once this has been mastered, I move onto this:

I have found that using a 5x5 rep scheme for primary lifts allows for much better perfectioning of form, allows for weights to be increased easier, and allows for much better strength gains. As long as the weight is kept to where the athlete can maintain proper form and good bar speed, I have yet to find an athlete that will gain enough strength that tendon adaptation will not meet strength gains. I have modified my rep loading based on Rippitoes recommendations in his Starting Strength book, working up to a three set flat load on bench, squat and military press, while working up to a single heavy set on deadlifts. Most of the athletes I have coached can use this rep scheme with the squats and deads until they are in the high 200’s before you even begin to see a plateau, while the presses tend to plateau out earlier.

I include a lot of unilateral work in my auxillary lifts, and usually keep each workout to 5-6 exercises (at the absolute most - inlcuding primaries). Here I tend to keep the reps higher at first (structural adaptation), then move to an undulating scheme (8-15 rep range) to give them some contrast and usually throw in 2-3 quick minor exercises at the end to address the main weaknesses (usally core, scapular retraction, glute med, external rotator/rc cuff).

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What about the following template:

Phase 1
BW exercises, medball throws, thera band etc

Phase 2
Squat 5x5 (15RM weight)
DL 5x3 (15RM weight)
Push 5x5 (15RM weight)
Pull 5x5 (15RM weight)
Auxilary work: single leg, unilateral work & BW exercises (12-15resp @15RM) + medballs

Phase 3
Squat 5x5 (10RM weight)
DL 5x3 (10RM weight)
Push 5x5 (10RM weight)
Pull 5x5 (10RM weight)
Auxilary work: single leg, unilateral work & BW exercises (10-12reps @12RM) + medballs

Phase 4
Squat 5x5 (8RM weight)
DL 5x3 (8RM weight)
Push 5x5 (8RM weight)
Pull 5x5 (8RM weight)
Auxilary work: single leg, unilateral work & BW exercises (8-12reps @12RM) + medballs

Phase 4
Ordinary strength training! Using conjugated or undulating approach!

Offcourse, everything depends on GOALS and INDIVIDUAL athlete, but this is something that can be used in general terms. What do you guys think?

P.S.
Since you have mentionet Starting Strength book, Scott I must say that interview with Rip and Glenn make me think a little and start this thread. I ordered both of their books and can’t wait to read them! What do you think about programming section in Starting Strenght book?

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I was just going to say: There’s no Rippetoe/Pendlay influence there!

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No influence at all, their iterview just make me think… and I came out with this!
I believe they hit 5x5 with 5RM at the very start with begginers (correct me if I am wrong here). The rationale for this is:

  • the athlete is too weak to use heavy load
  • the althete should use perfect technique
  • the athlete will eventually platoue — then swithc to more advanced planning/programming!

I haven’t read nothing yet from those two authors… but I can’t wait.

RyanH, can you explain in short their approach to training begginers? Thanks

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Where is the interview?

Duxx, how long is each of those phases?

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http://www.readthecore.com/200510/markr.htm

How long the phases lasts? Don’t know… I didn’t used this approach yet (I used linear stuff — Bompa). I think that this is highly individual, but I think first phase is 2-3 weeks, and the following are 1-2 weeks (except the last, which lasts from 5-15years hehe :slight_smile: )

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Quick question, why address the main weaknesses at the end of the session?
Thanks!

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I will actually address it as part of the dynamic flex/warm up at the start - then agian at the end. (ie. Birddogs, band face pulls, hips circles, etc). Just enough to get them activated and reinforce proper positioning in the beginning; additional strengthening at the end.

And please don’t take this as ‘advertising’ (rupert :slight_smile: ) but the Starting Strength book by Rippitoe should be required reading before any young coach starts working with athletes. I highly recommend checking it out. The book actually has 40+ pages on how to teach the squat correctly, and make any nescessary corrections.

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More exercises = less time to perfect them. A balance must be found.

Once the loading gets high enough, 5x5 can add some serious mass, so I wouldn’t necessarily agree with this statement.

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Rippetoe on Training Young Athletes:

However, in athletes at certain levels of experience and development, nonlinear periodization not only is unnecessary but also may be counterproductive. Novice athletes derive little benefit from periodized resistance training programs. The necessity of periodization increases relative to trainee experience until, at the advanced level, it becomes crucial for continued improvement. Periodization’s value lies in its ability to compensate for the diminishing returns inherent in the progression from novice to advanced training.

A common observation among strength coaches working with young novice athletes, and even with older novices, is that improvement happens rather quickly. Because of their inability to tax recovery capacities excessively, the vast majority of novices are able to add weight to the work sets of most core strength exercises every training session for many weeks or months, and their training should be designed accordingly.

During this early phase of an athletes’ career, any program that fails to take advantage of this capacity for rapid improvement misuses training time, misses opportunities to motivate through perceived success, and possibly costs the athlete a percentage of his or her potential development. Nonlinear periodization schemes requiring significant off-loading during their constituent microcycles may therefore be inappropriate for novices.

Periodization involves repetition maximum (RM) testing as a prerequisite to the calculation of percentages used in the program, assuming the test is predictive of current ability. This assumption ignores that (a) accurate assessment of RM depends on the execution skill of the athlete, which no novice, by definition, possesses; and (b) a novice’s strength increases as fast as load is added, further devaluing RM testing.

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I am very glad you post again Scott!

Yes, you are right! But can we avoid this situation to switch to 5x3 when the loading becomes serious (phase 4 & 5) if we disregard auxilary work of 8-12RMs? How would you progress to serious weights (1-3RMs) in a begginer who is at the end of its weight class — thus you must avoid any mmass increase (even decrease) while developing strength and avoiding injuries? I wouldlove to hear your and other solutions because I am currently confused. BTW there is a thread on this very issue.

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I have read new opinions that begginers don’t need periodization: thus they hit hard every workout and they are able to increase weight every workout. No need for unload. When the athlete start to stagnate, then it is time to apply periodization methods.

Using periodization methods with begginers (training based on percentages of RMs) is contra-productive: begginers adapt to fast for such an approach to be used.

What do you guys think about this?

Quik, RyanH,
Can you post begginer’s program from Starting Strenght book? Thanks!

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One reason to consider a simple plan w/ beginners is simply that they will work harder and more consistently with a plan they can understand and find simple to execute. “If you confuse em you lose em”. A decent basic plan will allow the athlete to work harder by not taxing their enthusiasm with this, that, the other – “what complicated crap do we have to do this week?”. It’s easy to say they shouldn’t see it that way but they often do. So create a situation that breeds success and understanding, rather than confusion and thus a less than full effort.