Hi Fogelson
I know from your statement that you are not advocating this yourself, but how successful are these particular programmes? Surely they are doing some (not insignificant) speed workouts before they commence racing?
Define speed work. Are we talking about them doing acceleration work and some form of SE? Probably, but it is far far from what most here would think about when talking about speed and SE specific to the 100m. I mean, if we look at more 200/400m oriented programs, I wouldn’t be surprised if MOST of them don’t do much “speed” work as would be defined on this site. Again, not advocating such an approach, but simply acknowledging it happens quite regularly and even in programs that have relatively high levels of success.
You just answered your own Question!
The biggest difference between the two sub groups at A grade to Elite level:-
Racing into shape is a short Peak at full fitness/speed/power etc. Good for a few races and the need for many many races at less elite level.
Those that train to get into shape, then Race to “Fine Tune” = longer season, more predictable performance, less injuries and bigger pay checks! Downside is its a year round plan.
Don’t get confused with doing a L-S plan, if done correctly, Your IN-shape before the season starts, you just need to Fine Tune your speed, SE etc with Racing. An example, is say Asafa, start of season roughly 10.0, then 9.8 to high 9.7’s by end. 0.2 - 0.3 of a sec = fine tuning.
Racing into shape might be running 11sec or even 10.80 now, and 10.40 or maybe the occasional 10.20 by in season with “maybe” a 10.07 or such PB done once.
How is going from from 11sec to 10.0 racing into shape but dropping more than 3 tenths isn’t? That is just nonsense. Show me one person who has ever done that. If your SE isn’t in place (as PJ has showed with splits) and then you use races to get it… you are racing into shape in one form or another.
And I said I don’t think it is ideal, but there are plenty of people who have run incredibly fast that did it.
10.07 here I come! LOL! I’m sure this is hypothetical really and I get your point… there are scores of athletes in the UK that race their way to form, as L-S programmes with a lot of early aerobic work and intensive tempo seem to dominate here. It’s as if they think they still have to train out in the cold! (even tho they are using indoor centres!)
The year that Dwain Chambers broke the World Junior record running 10.06 (run at end of July) he started his season with a 10.96 (I think run in early May). Now this was way down on his then previous best of 10.41. After he broke the record I spoke to his then coach and asked him how the hell did he get him down to that sort of time from the base he started the season. He told me that Dwain had started doing weights seriously that Winter and had yet to ‘absorb’ the effects!
Whatever his training, he’s going from 10.41 not 11 overall.
Give me a break. We’re talking about a 10.4 guy at worst and dealing with conditions in Britain in May (and the months preceding such).
Hey, please don’t shoot the messenger! 
Nobody mentioned that the athlete has a personal best of 10.9/11.0 and ends up with 10.0x. All that was asked is for an example of an athlete starting with a relatively slow time and ending up with a 10.0x.
Put him in identical weather and wind conditions and he runs much faster than 10.9-11.0.
I was there when Dwayne ran that time at the Loughborough International, and I can tell you that the weather was superb. He came last in the race. He was taken apart in the race. He jogged across the line dejected. We discovered that his then coach Selwyn Filbert I think… had been putting him through some very intense sessions prior to the meet in preparation for the major competition where he ran a world best for his age.
From time to time the weather can be superb in Blighty…LOL. They did some crazy stuff with Filbert in those days from what I know.
Look, when you examine the facts even the improvement from 10.41 to 10.06 (once conditions are taken into consideration) isn’t as dramatic as it may first appear. His 10.41 was run into a head wind two years before (10.42 slight following wind the year before). He was really a 10.3x athlete at his best in the right kind of conditions. His 10.06 was with a +2.0 wind which in still conditions would have placed him at approximately 10.2. In effect he moved from 10.3x to 10.2 in two years.
HOWEVER, regardless of what his potential was, 10.96 was a pretty slow time for him to start the season with and according to his coach at the time, Chambers was not happy with that performance.
This at least helps explain why it was so slow.
See - if you just look from the outside and “guess” you can make up your own conclusion based on nothing but Fluff.
Because you went and talked to the coach, it puts you into a league much higher up than that of other people. You ask and find out. Kudos to you for asking
So he runs basically 11, but he is under Hard, new and Full training - Far cry from doing just basic aerobic work and racing into shape.
He is running slow due to hard Training.
As he adapts to his training, he starts running faster later on - giving the appearance he is simply RACING into shape.
As he closes in on In-Season, he has adapted to his training, and its time to Fine tune all his hard work with Plenty of Races. Put all the pieces together at one time.
This returns us to the debate on whether everything is in place before the start of the season and maintained during the competitive season or whether intense sessions (re: training) continues on early into the season for the purpose of a bigger ‘rebound’ when it comes to peaking for the main event of the season. I recall hearing that the East Germans used to train hard through much of the early competitive season (as to I think Kentiris- though I may be wrong) and this did not seem to negatively impact on their performances on the big day. This said, the risks to an athletes confidence and of injury must be weighed against any benefits of such an approach.
This is why Double and Triple periodization plans are in place.
Build Comp “phases” into your yearly Plan, not just comp “phase”
Anybody think Bolt does double or triple periodization? What about Asafa and Gay? 
Hi Boldwarrior
Can you please elaborate just a little.
Whatever it is he does, Bolt seems to get his 200m time down quite low in a very short period of time (clearly after top speed is in place) but appears only to need a period of 3-4 weeks of concentrated 200m work to bring his times down to what we have witnessed in the past couple of years. For example in 2008 he ran 19.76 (-0.4) at Crystal Palace on 26th July and ran it quite hard (it was only 0.01 outside of his personal best). Clearly his 200m speed endurance was not in place as he had already run 9.72. By 20th August he runs 19.30 (-0.9). This year was hard to tell as many of his runs were in terrible weather conditions. However it does appear that he does a triple periodized year with a very short SPP3 late season.
Couldn’t you say the same about his 100m? 9.72 all out with Gay in his race and then 9.69 easing down–huge difference really. He runs a lot fewer 200s outside of major comps and doesn’t necessarily do it in the best conditions. See Lausanne this year.
How you can derive the idea he does a triple periodization when he doesn’t even have 2 clearly different comp periods is quite baffling.