¨Creatine and excessive protein. Very bad for them ol’ kidneys. Whatever it takes!!!˝
One of the best
¨Creatine and excessive protein. Very bad for them ol’ kidneys. Whatever it takes!!!˝
One of the best
I’m not surprised. It’s difficult to classify Strength and Conditioning as part of sport science when people are out there doing stuff like this. I’m still trying to understand how 100 reps of squats (with 240lbs from what I understand from other reports) in under 17 minutes has to do with football (or any other sport for that matter).
Notes from Iowa news conference
January, 26, 2011 Jan 266:24PM
By Adam Rittenberg
Iowa held a news conference earlier Wednesday afternoon where we got a few smidgens of information about the Hawkeyes football players who remain hospitalized. The number of hospitalized players has increased to 13, and it’s now confirmed they are recovering from rhabdomyolysis, a muscle syndrome that can be caused by excessive exercise and can, in serious cases, cause kidney damage.
Iowa director of football operations Paul Federici addressed the media along with Dr. John Stokes, a kidney specialist at University Hospitals. Biff Poggi, whose son Jim, an Iowa freshman linebacker, is one of the hospitalized players, also appeared at the news conference and provided by far the most information about what has taken place during the last six days.
The players are responding well to treatment, although their release from the hospital remains unknown. Officials can’t confirm the cause of the rhabdomyolysis, although they suspect it stems from a series of intense workouts.
Federici said all Iowa players went through the workouts, which are standard for this time of year but described as “strenuous” and “ambitious.” Thursday marked the start of winter workouts, and according to Biff Poggi, the players did an intense series of squats where a certain number of reps needed to be done in a specific time period. Jim Poggi reportedly did 100 squats in 17 minutes.
Federici on the regimen: “It is strenuous, it’s ambitious, the student-athletes know that. … It has been part of our workout at this time of the year in the past. [The wave of health problems] is just an anomaly. We haven’t seen this type of response.”
Biff Poggi: “It was a hard workout and [Jim] called afterward and said it was a hard workout. He was very, very sore. Thursday was general fatigue. Thursday evening he started to have severe quad pain.”
Iowa players went through an upper-body workout Friday before getting the weekend off, although Biff Poggi said Jim’s muscle soreness actually got worse. Players went though another lower-body workout Monday, after which Jim Poggi had symptoms (discolored urine) consistent with rhabdomyolysis.
Biff Poggi said Jim’s treatment has consisted of intravenous fluids, frequent blood work to check kidney function and bed rest. No dialysis has taken place. The officials couldn’t comment on the treatment for the other players because of privacy laws.
The use of drugs and food supplements can contribute to rhabdomyolysis, although it’s too soon to tell if that happened in the cases of these players. Hydration also is a factor, though Federici said fluids are readily available during these workouts.
Players went through the workouts in groups of 15-35 and all five Iowa strength coaches were present, Federici said. Muscle fatigue and soreness is typical after these workouts but the training staff began referring players to the hospital after more serious symptoms emerged.
Federici said head coach Kirk Ferentz is returning to Iowa City on Wednesday afternoon from a recruiting trip. Biff Poggi said he has been in touch with both Ferentz and linebackers coach Darrell Wilson multiple times in the past few days.
Federici: “Changes will be considered, I’m sure. We’re always looking for a better way to do things.”
Stokes said it’s typical for patients with rhabdomyolysis to be hospitalized for more than 48 hours. The good news is these are typically one-time occurrences. “What doctors are trying to be sure of is muscle injury improving and kidney function not getting worse,” he said.
Clearly, there are many more questions that remain. This certainly wasn’t Iowa’s finest hour from a p.r. standpoint, and if not for Poggi’s presence, the news conference would have been pointless. The big question among many folks is why Ferentz and athletic director Gary Barta weren’t present Wednesday? Schools typically want to get their most recognizable figures in front of the media.
I get that, but my bigger issue is why none of the strength coaches appeared Wednesday. They were present at these workouts and they could have shed more light on what actually happened, the workout regimens, what they ask from the players, whether there is any precedent for these medical problems, etc.
Thirteen players in the hospital is a big deal, and Iowa needs to treat it that way in its dealings with the media and the public.
Stay tuned for more as the story develops.
Of course there are alot of specualtion, but from what I heard one of the players girlfriend’s posted something on how her boyfriend and his teamates would leave the gym completely trasheda nd not being able to walk from doing so many squats. Who knows If shes telling the truth but it is too easy to just blame “other” reasons like every one wants to do.
In my opinion it was definately from misguided training
I just read your post Number 2, so I gues that confirms this girl’s online post
This is very surprising. The S&C is a good guy with a very conservative background, unless he has changed a bit in recent years.
He was on the group who banned backsquats in favor of front squats. I can’t imagine they did 100 reps of front squat, but who knows.
I’m sure no word from s&c will be said until everything has been evaluated. Anything said could be trouble later on.
Didn’t this happen to a highschool team recently too?
100 squats could be enough for a couple of weeks of training. 17 minutes…
Agreed, Doyle has had a pretty solid reputation for years. I have felt for many years that he’s done a great job with athlete development with a lot of kids who were not highly ranked out of high school-Bob Sanders, Dallas Clark and others.
It is surprising to hear of him subscribing to such a protocol-if that is indeed the case.
Banned back squats?!!? Who are these people? Why does strength training have to be so polarizing? If ever you find yourself in an argument with someone over “front squats versus back squats”, I truly think you are missing the point.
Having said that, if anyone has video footage of these guys doing 100 front squats in under 17 minutes, please post it for our viewing enjoyment! It can take the place of my regular viewing of “The Biggest Loser”.
One of my clients for Weight Loss, her Best friend and a good friend were on the Aussie Biggest Loser show.
8hrs a day training (6hrs low HR, 70-80% of max and 2hrs with a P.T. )
Then eat and sleep.
If i ever get clients come in and DEMAND 5-10kg per week fat lose, I tell them the Training required… Cuts them dead instantly.
Then the injuries - non stop injury machine that show.
I don’t like the show for those reasons, and the constant crying - but, it is a valuable show to Watch for a Public Relations standpoint when talking to potential or current clients who Do watch it. You cannot have a say if you don’t really watch it.
Gives you good Ammo to use when somebody gets trained Stupidly and then gets injured.
But sometimes also - you see something that is new and you can implement that idea.
Boy you said it. I can almost guarantee you Doyle has put more average joe type high school athletes into the NFL than anyone ever has.
I shouldn’t call them average joes’, more like: non 4/5-star players but with potential. I could list 20 guys off who weren’t heavily recruited out of high school that went on to be all big 10 and/or playing in the NFL right now in the last 8 years from Iowa. Thats just off the top of my head.
Another article on alumni comments:
While all three former players remembered the toll the 100 squats workout took on their bodies, they also spoke of its importance – almost reverentially – in the Iowa offseason workout program.
“It’s terrible, physically, but it really teaches you to go to your limit, push your boundaries,” Murphy said. “And it’s really a key team-building thing. You’ve been to hell and back with your teammates. (Later during the season) we’d joke about it during practice: ‘At least it’s not 100 squats.’”
Added Herbst, “I felt like I accomplished something when I got done with it. It makes you tougher mentally as well as physically.”
All that is crucial to being a successful major college football player, Elgin said.
“This is Big Ten football. Every student-athlete is trying to push their body to the absolute max,” he said.
Murphy agreed, saying simply, “I don’t think you can ever work too hard.”
All three players also came to the defense of Doyle, who has a solid reputation in the coaching community. Elgin added about 100 pounds to his frame under Doyle’s tutelage.
"That strength staff headed by Chris Doyle, they are smart. They research
everything. They are looking out for the best interest of the player," Elgin said. "He’s one of those guys that really cares. He really gets to know his players. He probably knows the players’ bodies better than they do. They have such a magnifying glass on the players. They know what’s going on.
“He’s one of the best strength and conditioning coaches in the nation, and you don’t fall into that reputation by being careless. It’s an unforutnate incident that hopefully both sides will learn from.”
Murphy sees this week’s incidents as isolated and hopes the issue doesn’t get blown out of proportion.
“They’re doing the same things we all did,” he said. “They should focus the story on why did this happen now?”
“one of the best strength and conditioning coaches in the nation…” – Based on what assessment? I know some pretty smart strength coaches, and none of them would have ever prescribed 100 squats with a time limit. Obviously, this is a staple of the program and has a history.
The general public’s assessment of “What makes a good strength coach” counts for very little. It’s like using the “People’s Choice Awards” as a measuring stick for excellence.
Can you link to any studies that show a correlation between excessive supplement protein and/or creatine and kidney function?
Exactly, no such study exists with healthy individuals. Unfortunately, even at the university level, we still have some PhD’s making comments such as, “don’t eat too much protein because it’s well known it’s bad for the kidneys.”
My advice to anyone is don’t eat too much of anything.
Well, the american heart says Yes
Those are the top two when i googled if Protein is bad for the kidneys
But, as the question was posed, there are no studies proving either poses a healh risk that I have seen. The only study I’m aware of with protein and kidney function indicated potential issues with individuals with pre-existing kidney conditions.
Maybe the message is don’t eat a high amount of anything. Be sure that the consumption is in line with basic guidelines of consumption of macronutrients per lb. or kg of bodyweight.
Exactly right - so, how do you tell if one has a pre-existing kidney condition? Esp if they don’t even know…
Also - you can test for Filter issues in the body via Blood and urine Acid levels via a PH test - certain parameters indicate a potential Kidney/liver Blockages - Best seeing a Naturapath for this test.
I don’t claim to be a doctor or even a sports scientist, only someone who checks out various studies.
I can’t say how they came to this conclusion but it was mentioned in the one study where the advice against a high protein diet (not sure how they are defining that exactly either) was that people with known kidney issues should, in particular, avoid a high protein intake. Perhaps someone can find this study-it’s been a number of years since I’ve seen it.
I don’t know the details
If it was one I’d most likely think it was a personal medical issue - but who knows.
6 is a bit much!
I don’t know how many times I’ve thought that about this profession!
It’s the same reasoning Franno doesnt like back squats, he feels the injury risk is too high. Whether right or wrong, the thinking with it is to keep athletes healthy, relatively speaking. This is why this makes no sense. If they have this attitude, then why do works as those being reported. Makes no sense to me.
I do hope those players recover well quickly.