I play forward/winger position and I would say have a pretty extensive knowledge of the game.
But Monday would probably be a good day to take an off day and treat some knocks I might have gotten in the 2 pickup games I played and let my body rest. Then Tuesday and Thursday try do speed and strength work along with high intensity soccer drills incorporated in the sprinting in the morning. Wednesday and Friday I can do less intense ballwork and tempo running, but I’m not sure about the distance. Would 2000-2500 be enough? I’m playing 2 days a week also. I am going to count running with the ball as part of my tempo work too or should I not do that? I was thinking maybe I should focus on technical drills in the beginning and then whatever I have left I will do some tempo and end the session but follow the general rule of not letting my speed slow down?
I am really concerned abut how much volume of work should I do so that I don’t get led to overtraining again.
Btw what is your guys opinion about all this cns needs recovery for you to train to your best ? From your experience how much of this is true cause whenever I play on weekends and I do nothing for the week and just go play on Saturday and Sunday (both days are intense, prolly not as intense as heavy lifting or sprinting but still), I usually play better on Sunday than Saturday. I have tried this before. I mean if your mind says you are recovered and your body can handle it do you still need to worry about if CNS recovery or whatever? Cause sometimes I feel like training is not science, there are too many variables in the real world. Thus, training is more art than anything else. I’m just saying some ideas… what do you think
After weekend’s matches, Monday would probably be a good day, yes.
Check this thread out, if you haven’t done already -it should be very informative to you.
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?13883-Thoughts-on-Charlie-Francis-and-soccer
Originally Posted by duxx
First off: Thanks for the reply Charlie! (great infor about speed reserve)
Altought I agree with you almost completely and I had implemented/modified your system for my needs working with soccer players (hills, short-to-short, no or very small SE etc) I have couple of comments to put:
-
It seems that you solve all problems with team athletes by prescribing tempo and speed, which is actually your sprinters do. Thus you basically copy the sprinters workouts to team athletes with little or no modification which I dislike. Please correct me if I am wrong here Charlie - not to critique you but to learn from you.
-
We do not have off-season here as defined by westerns. We have a pause of 1month during the june, and we have a 20days break during the winter. Our preparatory period starts with team practices and thus I must implement speed/tempo/weigths/plyos into team practices and arrange with a head coaches and menagers. Thus western concept of off-season where you have athtletes free of team practice when they are able to do athletic/sprinter like training is of little use in Serbia (except maybe that 1 month, but during that time athletes goes home and their trining is not organized nor controled - its their year vacation).
So how to modify tempo and speed in this situations? -
In my last post I was reffering to the research of Jens Bangsbo in which he demostrated that players who did performed SE training (mainly with a ball: 2on2 small sided duel games; hunting a ball; repeated shooting at the goal with a sprint around the cone) greatelly improved his ‘field test’ than players who didn’t.
Bangsbo states that: ‘analysis of the matches has shown that the higher level of soccer, the more high-speed running is performed. The capacity to produce lactate and to repeately perform high-intensity excercise should therefore be specifically trained. This can be achieved trough speed endrance training’
But tat the same time Bangsbo writes: ‘However, it is recommended that this type of training is only used with top-class players, as the training is very demanding, both physically and mentally. When there is a limited amount of time aviable for training, time can be better utilized for other forms of training.’
‘Speed endurance training should have low priority and may be complitely omited for non-elite players’
‘Speed endurance training should not be used with players under 16 years of age.’
The quotes are from ‘Aerobic and anaerobic training in soccer’ by Jens Bangsbo (2005/06) pp150-151.
Looking forward to futher discussion!
( below was posted by Charlie Francis)
You CAN’T copy the sprint program directly because the sprints have Special Endurance while the soccer does not, relying instead on short bursts. Additionally, soccer requires a larger aerobic component. for example short sprints might include 6000 to 6600 meters per week of tempo, 400m might include 9000 to 10,000 meters per week, while soccer might require approx 12,000 meters per week.
As for moving to speed endurance training for the top athletes. this is directly in reverse of the direction seen with top level sprinters, where all general fitness avenues are exhausted, leaving more max speed as the only remaining means to better performance. Perhaps the testing is on those who are not totally aerobically fit (back to the bla discussion you pointed to earlier?)
Yes I’ve read these before… but how can you do so much tempo work if you are playing 2 games in a row so it has to be reduced obviously and skill training should be done in the beginning and everything added to it in the end, but if I’m doing speed training (hill work) wouldn’t it make sense to do hills first when you are fresh and skills later. same with lifting as can’t you just do your strength training workout and practice 10-15 minutes against the wall after your lifts are done? It’s not like I’m lifting to failure or get a pump or soreness in my legs.
Elasticity will come as a by product of how you train and what you do in your training.
Are you able to feel how elastic your muscles are now? Are you able to notice when you are not as elastic?
You mentioned feeling best on your Sunday games…, I am guessing you might be going into your game Saturday a bit flat? I wonder if you do a small warm up Saturday morning if this can be " fixed"? The idea with the warm up on game day would be breaking a sweat and adding a few light drills. Total duration would be less than a normal warm up.
What an amazing thread. Thank you for posting this Nikolouski.
Can dribbling fast be done on my tempo or “light days” as well? Can I not judge how my body and mind feels and train according to it? Like how would I even know if my cns was not optimal… if you say to yourself you need rest or your cns is not recovered then your brain will think that way which will influence your body so I think changing your thinking and not being stressful can help you train more as well. Thoughts?
Yes that makes sense I will just do my regular training and not worry about it then.
You see I have been a bit lazy recently and only been playing weekend games and I have been busy with school work so I have had a hard time following a schedule of training, but will definitely start soon so once I start training regularly again with the ball I think that won’t be a problem. My school is 5 minutes from my house and on the mornings of my weekend games would it be okay to do some wall drills and I guess it can be a sort of warm ups in the mornings of game days for me. How long should it last btw?
I think you are mixing things up. What Charlie suggests is obviously very fine, but it’s there to be adjusted depending on your needs. The volume given for tempo is for professional players, from what I remember. But overall, tempo volume should be higher vs. a short/long sprinter, that’s the point.
If you are in doubt regarding intensity, keep it either very low or very high. Don’t expect your body to dictate your mind -it’s the other way around…
Place those things first that are of priority depending on your plan. E.g., if speed is your number one priority for that day, do it first. If skill comes first, place it before tempo. In any case, technique should come first, generally speaking.
On more practical matters, I think Angela was referring to your Saturday match and the need for a short warm-up in the morning of that day. Try this first and see how you feel on both weekend days. Then you decide.
And stop being a bit lazy! 
(joke)
Sounds awesome. So since I do soccer skill work in the beginning I am doing some aerobic fitness so can my tempo work be less? And for some parts of the tempo I think I should dribble the ball at around 70-75% percent intensity as well.
Yes warming up in the morning prolly would be good. I’ll try it… maybe I’ll go to my school and do some wall drills as well with the ball to keep my coordination and awareness of the ball sharp, but will keep in mind that it’s a warm up. I’m going on vacation on Friday for a couple of days so when I return I will prioritize my training and be strict about it 
70-75% of what? Of your dribbling skill max or of your grass-speed max? Ha. Re-read that thread -I think there is a talk with regards to bringing the ball into your conditioning or not. It’s probably up to you to make up your mind on this…
Skill training is a priority for me. Tbh I am already physically good enough to play the sport except my endurance but its my skill that lacks behind but if I can improve my speed and strength as well while I’m improving my skill it will make really stand up and help me take to the next level I believe. I meant 70-75% of grass speed max. If I am dribbling at my fastest would that still be 70-75% max of my sprint speed or what? I’ve read the thread many times but can’t really find info about ball incorporation except duxx saying there are high and low cns soccer activities which I’m not sure I even learned from that thread I think it was from a different source (his soccerspecific powerpoint has it). He says dribbling is a low cns activity but I’m not sure if it is easy going dribbling or match speed dribbling.
Only a stopwatch can tell you the intensity…
OK then, there is a discussion with regards to whether conditioning training should be done with or without the ball. Both can work or has worked. This forum’s opinion by those with some experience at the highest level was that conditioning would be better achieved without the ball. Search the forum as best as you can (via google, too).
Conditioning is better achieved without the ball for those at the highest level because they don’t need the extra ball work. For those not at the highest level, if you can incorporate the ball into some of your conditioning, the extra touches will be helpful. Some conditioning should also probably be done without the ball.
I think this is the best way. So guys again should my skill work and dribbling with the ball compromise my volume for the amount of tempo work I do? What I mean is doing those drills and stuff should not mean I do less tempo work right or what do you say?
And so practicing free dribbling and cutting and turning can be done on tempo or light days as well then? Do I really need to worry about this?
Awesome replies everyone! Soccer chats on here are fantastic.
Having prepared players from the high school level to play college, I can say for certain there needs to be an element that prepares you to do well on the coaches fitness test, whatever that may be. Nearly 20 college coaches my athletes played for always started fall off with some type of fitness test. This alone can separate you from the team being in top shape, as many of my players would set team fitness records as incoming freshman doing tempo.
I would recommend reducing to 1 game weekly. I have timed my athletes in actual games (not pickup) and found most possessed the ball less than 90 seconds of a 90 minute game. To me, skill mastery is important, (as was stated previous). I would look to add skill training sessions where your quality and quantity of touches will far exceed those in a pick up game. I would also try to figure out how much fatigue a pick up game causes. My guess is not much.
In the past during the summer, I have used this weekly set up with my players with long training history with me
Monday: AM: Speed & wts PM: tempo
Tuesday: AM: skill training (or practice): PM: tempo
Wednesday: Speed & wts
Thursday: Am: skills (or practice) PM Tempo
Friday: Tempo:
Sat: Game(s)
Sun off
Part of this was set up not ideally, but due to other issues. I also might replace Friday’s tempo with the athlete’s fitness test. I felt it was important at least every 2 weeks to test them so they can see the improvement and for them to get comfortable with the test. In many cases, athletes playing time was determined on their fitness test score so this was important to the ultimate goal (getting them playing time).
For speed work days, I usually did 2-4 reps of resisted sprints (tires orsled, no hills around), did many medBall throws found in GPP, push up sprint variation (including visual reaction into sprints), and change of direction drills emphasizing technique mastery (placement of feet relating to hips etc), not just running around cones. Since they practiced and played 3 days a week, I figured this into their weekly schedule as “agility” days and felt no need to add this to workouts.
Maybe Duxx can comment on his experiences, I never used balls for tempo work as I felt it was more kick and chase. I believe Duxx has developed some interesting ball drills.
You know this has always been a dilemma for me… whether to decide to play an extra day or use it for recovery and have other quality training days alone where I can get more touches on the ball by training alone than with others. My pickup games depends but usually it is more intense nowdays than before, but I try to limit my running because I don’t want to work myself out, but maybe if I go once a week then I can give my best and use the next day as recovery and there is nothing holding me back and I can go all out without worrying about recovering tomorrow as it will be a rest day tomorrow. It also depends on your condition as I haven’t done any aerobic work so ofcourse it’s gonna seem tiring to me, but once I get more fit the games are not gonna be as tiring, but that’s good because I will be able to play with more intensity and improve as a player. It’s not intense as a real match, but I will try to treat it as such so I can make it more realistic and improve myself.
Also I’ve been wondering because at this age I think most of my development will come best if I played in game situations more so wouldn’t playing both days actually help me with my positioning and awareness of the ball and spacing and working on my first touch to setup for a goal or when to pass or shoot…all those decisions that are critical to make you a better player. What do you say?
I like your setup. So you don’t do any skill training on Friday then? Just tempo? May I ask why? Is it okay to do skill training that day too? And for Monday you do speed and weights and tempo in the evening? How are your experiences with that? I don’t have resistance sprints so hill running is my best option, but that is only available at my school, but if I go to my school then I don’t think I will be able to use their field to do my soccer training as that is used for the school team athletes and plus it will be in the morning where school is going on, but I will be able to lift right after doing hills so doing speed and weights at the same time will work for me that day. My hill is really steep and around 12-15 yards I think. Doing 10 reps with 1 minute rest and then taking 3-5 minute rest and lifting would suffice I suppose? Or should I do 2 sets of that instead of 1? On the evening I can do skill/tempo work I guess? Could I focus on skill instead of tempo as that is more of a priority for my development as a player? What do you think?
I’ve looked at alot of Duxx’s stuff. His drills are related with training a team so it doesn’t really help me :(.
And what type of skill training or team practices did you conduct? Can you do stuff like dribbling up to a cone with speed and acclerating away as skill training on your lower intensity days? I suppose that’s not that bad yeah.
As for tempo work with the ball I’m still not sure because I don’t know how going at that pace during a match will really help. Maybe it is better to do it without the ball and most of the running you do in the game is ofcourse without the ball as well so it makes sense. Maybe for 1/4 to 1/2 of the tempo work I can do it with dribbling a ball even if I am not going fast. Getting more touches will help me get better contact on the ball I suppose.
Here’s a thread I found duxx talked about tempo with ball
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?13378-Tempo-with-ball
I guess I can do it for some parts and another question I had was how do I judge it is tempo speed? How do I know it is 70-75% of my grass speed that day? And while running with the ball my grass speed would be actually slower because I will always need to stop to take a touch and move the ball forward so my actual dribbling speed can be more high, but in comparison to the grass speed it could still be in tempo range? Like even if I’m going 80-85% of my full dribbling pace it might be still in the tempo range speed (75% of my max grass speed that day).
Also for speed can you tell me more about change of direction drills as I know running around cones that are already marked won’t really help you develop game agility. I think doing linear sprinting and doing ball drills with acceleration probably would take care of everything in my opinion but I’m open to see what you do for change of direction work. Also, for my speed days I also incorporate the ball in my sprints (e.g. sprint 10 yards w/o ball and turn and sprint back 10 yards with a ball) as I think it’s important to practice going as fast as you can with the ball as well. Do you agree that I should also incorporate this in my speed days or is that unnecessary and I can do that type of stuff on my skill training days?
Some extra touches won’t hurt you under the circumstances you describe, i.e., your level and basically being on your own. But stay focused on what you want to achieve overall as part of your preparation and/or on a certain day.
Starting tempo with some touches and finishing the rest without the ball can work. If you feel you are behind and you need some good tempo workouts, leave the ball aside for that day(s). Tempo, according to the definition given by Charlie and for this forum, is at 70-75% of your maximum intensity on the same surface, i.e., grass in your case, I guess. If timing yourself on grass does not apply to you for whatever reason, you should finish your session in the same way you start it, if not slightly faster, considering you are ‘warming up’ in the first few reps. When in rhythm, count your steps for a certain distance and stay there, despite feeling you can/‘should’ go faster. Better safe than sorry. There is always the next day for assessment and adjustments, if/when needed (e.g., a speed or a game day can tell you that).
As for speed, give more emphasis on your speed reserve and linear speed, extending from time to time the distance to more than just accelerations. Since proper team practices are missing at the moment, you could use an agility session, but this is not the same with acceleration/speed development as such.