I seem to disagree to some extend with most of the posts above and I hope the following don’t disturb your learning process, Joel.
Briefly, I prefer (1) a top/bottom approach, (2) the snatch before the clean and (3) lots of work from the blocks (as you are coming further down in the sequence) as the most important aspect of “learning” the DKB -before you go there.
In your case and in order to emphasise the DKB without messing things too much -hopefully, I would do some extra work from blocks and from a perfect position; since it’s early days for you, you should be able to “save” it -not that you are doing anything seriously wrong! The latter might mean you staying out for a while from the full movement perhaps.
[Perhaps you are in the perfect position -and if you are interested enough in finding out - to test both approches in the two lifts and see what works best -not something I would be eager to test my self though; sounds scary, doesn’t it? :o ]
Not sure what Number2 has to say on any of the above posts; it would be interesting to hear his recommendations! Thanks!
Hope it helps you more than it confuses you, Joel!
PS whether the DKB can be taught, or occurs naturally is a chicken and egg discussion to me; leave it!
Not to put words into his mouth, but having spent numerous years learning from him, I would have to say that he falls into the ‘DKB will come naturally when everything is in place’ camp.
If I can find some time, I’ll post videos of the teaching progression that I learned from him. I’ve used it with a ton of athletes, and find that it works very well.
tc0710,
I followed a tip from a MILO article that has made things pretty painless in my first weeks with the snatch and has really helped my squatting.
In a paragraph describing warmup for the lifts, Jim Schmitz (US coach in '80, '88, and '92) writes the following:
“…we begin with a broom handle about five feet long. Take a very wide grip, over three feet, and take the broom handle from about your waist over your head and behind your back, keeping your arms straight, and then reverse. This is called dislocates. This stretches your shoulders and prepares them for the snatches to follow. You want to do several dislocates, moving your grip in with every few reps, until you can’t do it anymore.”
Back in the gym tomorrow; can’t wait to apply everyone’s ideas.
Here is the general teaching sequence that we used with our athletes when I was working under 2. Each step was done of 2-4 sets of differing reps until the pattern was grooved. How much of the sequence would be taught to the athletes in one session would depend on: the goal of the session, the number of athletes being worked with, how fast the athletes were able to master the skill, and the general level of fatigue. At no time was the DKB ever emphasized - but it seemed to come naturally as each step was mastered and technique corrections were made.Keep in mind that there are a TON of variations that can be used off of this sequence depending on what you want to teach or need to emphasize (block work is often used).
Unfortunately, i didn’t have any snatch video on the hard drive, but the same basic sequence could be used.
For those choosing to watch the video: this is a couple of years old, and I had a lot of technique issues that I was working out at the time (weak low back position, a hitch between the first and second pull that slowed the pull and made the contact on the leg too low, often causing the bar to arc away from my body - I caught more than one clean across the Adam’s apple :eek:, the bar gets away from me due to the previous point, my hips don’t come through enough, etc. ). Anyways - here’s the video. Feel free to critique away or offer comments:
If I am not mistaken, the general trend is from top to bottom, yes? Let me know!
About the DKB and as I said before, for me there is no point discussing it, as long as you’ve found something that works without the athlete realising it…
Thanks for the video again!
Sorry to let this thread get a little stale. In the interim I built some risers for the boxes to raise the bar to the upper thigh starting position, as recommended by you all for practice. And tonight I filmed a few more sequences.
The new file will show some box snatches from the upper thigh and then a progression of snatches from the floor with increasingly heavier weights. I’ve done my best to implement everyone’s advice: chest is held higher, more front to back knee action, bar closer to body…
Two observations:
I don’t feel much leverage in the “power position”. It seems that with the knees only slightly bent, a majority of the movement must come from the shrug and foot plantar flexion. I feel like the power should come from hip extension, and it’s not there when I’m almost in an upright position.
It’s not easy to transition from the 1st pull to the 2nd. I suppose this is the biggest challenge of the oly lifts; making the transition to the proper power position and doing it fast enough so as to be plyometric.
One thing I noticed from the block work video clip is that your hip extension does not seem, for lack of a better term, “violent” enough. Also, there doesn’t appear to be enough back extension. Christian Thib. describes in his Black Book of Training Secrets the position during the second pull of the Snatch as follows: “Basically, what we are looking for is for the body to look like a bow (hips forward, back and legs extended).”
Personally, I have Dreschler’s encyclopedia, Schmidts video, and have learned techniques directly from the late Dr. Siff, but as far as a video tutorial, the best set of videos I own and highly recommend are a pair produced by “World Class Coaching”. They are labeled “The World’s Most Powerful Lift” for the Clean and “The World’s Fastest Lift” for the Snatch. Shane Hammond is the model during the Clean video and Loreen Miller is the model during the Snatch video. Both tapes are more thorough than anything I have seen to date. Not sure if they are still available, but if you can do a search for them online and find them you would be well served to purchase these gems. The added benefit of these videos is that you get to see clips of top lifters like Vanev of Bulgaria, Dimas of Greece, Huster of Germany and the list goes on.
Best of luck!
Well, snatch from the blocks looks to be a little too high. Maybe start from 2, maybe 3 inches lower. That will allow you to get a litttle more into the lift…and hopefully, more extension.
Also, you first pull off the floor looks to be maybe a little too short. Look at the path of the bar as it passes your knees…you have to bring the bar back out away from your body because your knees still have too much bend in them. This is probably what is causing your lack of “pop” in your second pull when you hit the “power position”. Focus on extending the knees more during the first pull ( getting them straighter), this will bring the bar in closer to the body, put the hams on more of a stretch, and most likely result is a more forceful second pull.
Hope this helps.
-not that you are doing anything seriously wrong! The latter might mean you staying out for a while from the full movement perhaps.
