Break - Week 5 Wednesday
Did some back work I think it was:
Lat Pulldown5x10 pw/
Machine Row 5x10
Back Pulldown 3x10 pw/
Bicep Pulldown 3x10
Thursday
3x10m 1 1/2min rest
3x20m 2 1/2min rest
3x25m 3min rest
Notes - tomorrow movin back up to ny for school so back to atrophy probably, but we’ll see maybe this semester will be lighter and I can get some actual training in.
5x6 Upright Row
2x6, 2x4, 2x2 Shrug
4x4 Front Squat
Notes: Yes, just turned 23 12minutes ago I am officially an old man.
2x12 2x6 Bicep Curl pw/
4x8 Tricep Extension
3x6 Concentration Curl pw/
3x6 Skull Crusher
5x1 Broad Jump
A little bit of body weight leg stuff.
Notes: yeay finally gunna have my bench up here today so I can get back to benching and squating, can hardly wait.
Yes finally have the bench up at my apartment wooohooo, can finally get back to something that resembles a regular workout, even more so after the temperature gets over like 20F which wont be for a couple weeks probably.
Today did:
Bench 5x5 @ 225
Half Box Squat 3x5@225 2x5@275
Will probably do some shoulder stuff later, but really looking forward to testing out my training theory.
Also order an EMS/TENS unit, should probably be here mid week. Probably will start off using it for recovery and as time goes on use it more for hypertrophy.
Have you ever used an EMS for recovery before? Any success?
Can you elaborate on the training theory a bit or give a link to where you have discussed it elsewhere.
Davan, I have never used EMS at all, so this is going to be all new to me, hopefully I dont kill myself, but I’ll let you know how it goes, main reason I got it was because I didnt know for sure if I was going to have my bench/squat stuff at my apartment, so now that I do I’ll probably “try” to use it mostly for recover, but i’ll let you know how it goes.
mreoyn09, well you can look back through here somewhere in the middle i question some things, not much of a theory, and i have other stuff I have been thinking about/looking for answers about. But right now my major bone is with strength trainings rule in sprinting. A basic portion of what i posted was in a thread “hypertrophy for speed”.
Basically what I am pondering is how much if at all the use of strength training should be used in sprints, specifically very short sprints 55m/60, 100m. Obviously strength training has its potential, but I dont see where it applies after the start of the race (0-5m), obviously there will be some slight spill over to the next segments of the race, but I dont think it is justified enough to have it take up significant parts of training or at least a signficant part of the drain on the cns.
I purpose, and dont get me wrong, these are more mere speculations then scientific fact that there is little if any carryover from the speeds used in the weightroom to the track. You always here the talk about converting weightroom gains to track gains, but is that really the case? Could it not be that you are carrying over the hypertrophy (or more intune with my ideas and targeted to less misunderstanding, body structure changes)?
So I am not purposing that you need to bulk up to 200 to be a great sprinter, in fact there are world class sprinters ranging from below 150 to around the 200lb range, so I am not saying you need all muscle, I am saying that peoples bodies are suited to different amount of muscular development. And the key to sprinting speed after the start has more to do with the ability to move the limbs at the optimal speed at the optimal amount of hypertrophy. So some athletes might be better adapted to weighing only only 140, but are able to move the various body structures at a higher rate of speed at this weight then other individuals who may be able to get more overall speed at weighing 200lbs but moving the body structures at a slightly slower speed.
However, if this is the case, it would not be beneficial to spend signficant amounts of time on strength gains in the weightroom, rather most time shoudl be spent on shorter sprints usually around 0-30m and rarely over 60-70m. Also significant plyos, however you define them and/or single jumps and fast leg drills should be used.
This is a basic idea what I am talking about, hope it helps.
I have little time now so I will say a tiny more, but its 1am so probably not too much.
But some of the main factors that need to be considered and I am sure I have said this before, human performance is still from my perspective, like the rest of this little ramble will be, a pretty poorly understood topic. While some research does exist the applications or usually not practical and must studies are done on untrained subjects confounding the results.
What is usually seen is in scientific terms a strong correlation between strength gains and sprint speed, I do not deny this, depending on the exercise around .6 can probably be around what is expected from a study, but a correlation is just that a correlation, meaning that all else is equal, you can expect a increase in strength to also increase sprint times. I do not deny this and I believe there is still a place for strength in sprint training, however I believe this area is a lot smaller than believed. All over this site and others most of the board is taken up by questions like whats your squat, deadlift or squat, how good is the leg press, name the top 10 best lifts for sprinting, at times sprinting itself seems to take the back seat to lifting, this should not be the case.
Back to studies, yes I have seen studies about max strength, but again, what are these studies, 4 or 8 week studies, if your lucky you get a 12 week study, what is that, that is not a training program, that is not real life, real life is combining full season of trained athletes, not 4 or 8 weeks with untrained athletes. This being said, my humble attack is not better and it could be seen as worse than the studies themselve. Atleast they show evidence, however poor I may think it is, all I have is a semiuneducated hunch. I see individuals who squat 500 running similiar times to other “trained” individuals who squat 200-300 or maybe dont even squat.
I just dont see the correlation, why do you need to “convert” max strength. How does this conversion take place. I am not saying it does, and I am not saying my shot in the dark here is any better, or that it can even be used practically. Problems arise, how do you know the optimal amount of hypertrophy to use, whats the dose response, for that matter what type of hypertrophy, what types of exercises and at what level will increase movement speeds, how does this effect an overall plan?
A lot of questions yes, but are there not a lot of questions now in the current sprint systems, at times does it not seem like coaches are just taking shots in the dark anyhow and just hoping they get lucky with one or two speedsters?
I am not saying my idea is correct, or even if it is that I exactly know what kind of change it would cause in current training, it could be relatively minor, or result in a complete overhaul in training, but hey cant I dream that this kinda, mite, sorta be right?
Thanks for the reply. I’d like to discuss this with you a little bit and clarify a few points. Kinda busy right now though so I’ll get back to it when I get a chance.
mreoyn09, sounds good.
Hang Clean - 5x3 @ 185
Straight Leg DL - 4x6 @ 185
Notes - EMS should be here tomorrow, yeay!
EMS arrived!!!
EMS calves - 20min 10sec on 20 sec off
EMS quads - 20min 10 sec on 20 sec off
Bent Rows - 4x4 @ 185
Bi & Tri work
Didnt get to lift until midnite so didnt have time or energy to do anything amazing, tomorrow plan to do some speed work in terms of lifting, maybe get in some plyos or leg cycles still way too cold and snowy to do anything outside.
EMS - Hamstrings 20min
EMS - Biceps 10min
Bench - 4x6 95lb
Squat - 4x6 95lb
EMS - Abs 20min
Leg Extension - 4x12 pw/
Leg Curl - 4x10 pw/
Wide Grip Bench 2x10/Decline Fly 2x8 pw/
Close Grip Bench 3x10
Single Leg Depth Jump 3x3
Bench 2x6, 1x4 @ 235
Half Box Squat 3x6 @ 240, 275, 290
Currently reading an operations management book, i see a lot of carryover to track, will talk a little more about it upcoming, hope to get something other then lifting in soon as well, we’ll keep u guys updated the beginning of next week, have a lot of work to do.
I think you ask a lot of good questions and I have a lot of the same questions myself. However, the way I see it sprinting comes down to your strides per second and the amount of force you put into each stride. Now at the start you have long GCTs and therefore you have more time to display the force (strength is more important, as you said) and the farther out you get the less time you have to display the force (greater need for RFD). As far as I know, though I could be wrong about this, your stride frequency or quickness or however you want to define it is largely genetic and is much less trainable than other physical qualities. I think this kind of eliminates the concern about limb speeds because you won’t see much improvement no matter how much you train that quality. It also leaves the amount of force per stride as the main component to train (not that its that simple because there are obviously other things to worry about such as technique, etc). Strength work improves the amount of force you can display regardless of time, in other words it gives you a larger “pool” to draw from, and then sprinting and plyos improve your ability to display that force potential you have within the time limits of a sprint stride (although my bone is with the role of plyos/OLY in a sprint program :D). Also, I don’t quite see the link between your thinking and logic in your previous posts and the desire for hypertrophy. I would think that hypertrophy in and of itself would be a negative because it adds mass to the athlete but it adds potential for strength which in turn adds potential for greater force per stride.
Again, I think you have a lot of valid points and it would definitely be interested to see where your line of thinking will take you. I think discussing/questioning this could also lead to some interesting conversation. Let me know if you want me to move this elsewhere so I don’t jam up your log.
Bench - 2x8, 1x6 @ 225
Half Box Squat - 3x8 @ 240, 275, 290
Running Motion Shoulder - 3x1m @ 10lbs
mreoyn09 I’ll get back to you in a couple days i’m swamped right now.
Bent Row - 3x8 @ 135, 155, 155
Straight Leg Deadlift - 3x8 @ 185, 205, 205
Leg Extension - 3x10 @97.5, 140, 140
EMS Calves & Hamstrings - 20 minutes
Did some hamstring and bicep ems on Friday, going back up to school tomorrow, hopefully get some lifting in, but not sure if i’ll have time, and hopefully i’ll have sometime this week to write about The Goal, but we will see.
Bench 3x3 @ 255, 255, 260
Half Box Squat 3x3 @ 295, 325, 345
EMS - abs 20min
Power Clean 3x3 @ 185, 195, 205
Straight Leg Deadlift 3x6 @ 205, 205, 225
Front Squat 3x4 @ 135, 185, 205
Dumbell Row 2x10 @ 50
Notes - might compete this weekend, suppose to get about a foot of snow tomorrow night tho, so we’ll see how the weather is going to be for the weekend.