Scar tissue won’t come out in one tx. ART works very well. High resolution ultra sound is a very useful diagnostic tool for muscle injuries and is far cheaper than an MRI. Also enzymes are the most effective at the time of injury, though they may still help in general (the emzymes speed up the roll-over of amino acids in the muscles and help with the breakdown and utilization of proteins in food)
Treble,
I don't know what this guy's understanding of percussion is, but as a massage technique it is not effective in breaking down scar tissue, because it does not reach down to the deeper tissues. Percussion is when you hit the tissue very quickly with alternating hands like in a roll of drums.
Any physio and any chiro who does soft tissue techniques should be able to help you with your problem. ART is just one technique that some people found useful but it is not the only thing that does the job.
Furthermore, not only ART practitioners do ART. I’m studying chiro for example, and we learn ART techniques as well.
Regards,
Robin.
So Charlie, you’re sayin that the enzymes wouldn’t be as effective if taken after the injury has healed? Cuz I haven’t really re-injured the leg in a while. I’ve cramped up in that leg, but i’ve never actually hurt it seriously again. So would the enzymes be as useful if at all to an area already occupied by scar tissue if at all?
Robin, the way he described it, he as talkin about some sort of machine. He said when it’s performed, you’ll feel the vibration on the other side of your body, where ever it’s being applied. For example, he said if he used the “thing” on my let shoulder, I would feel it in my right shoulder. He never mentioned anything about using his hands to do it. He said that it is more comfortable than the ART treatment, and it’s a lot quicker as well. He mentioned that in the ART treatment I might have to wait as long as an hour just get my muscles to relax so that the deeper tissue can be reach. He said that the percussion treatment doesn’t involve any of that.
I think i’m gonna just go to the nearest chiro(soft tissue) and have them work it out.
Wait an hour for ART to get in there? This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. get some ART
No cross fiber friction Charlie?
Cross-fibre friction works as well
I’m starting to believe that myself.
Would graston work just as well as ART?
I guess it would depend on how superficial the injury is and how low (towards the tendon area). I’ve had only limited exposure to the Graston bars but they definitely can have a role in some injury/tightness situations. The practitioner needs to have a sensitive touch as they are major force multipliers.
Even though the session are like 10mins long my friend swears by the graston bars.
It seems to take forever to get the area (hamstring) loose, I dont feel decent until the last sprint or two during workouts and for prelims I feel there’s no way Im gonna race and then come finals it actually feels decent. It seems to be more a scar tissue thing then a pulled muscle because I don’t understand how I can run Pr’s with a pull hamstring.
Cross fiber friction massage for scar tissue:
Anyone know what are some finger/hand/thumb positions are? Youtube videos showed two fingers together. I did some work on my wife and it seemed for thigh, hamstring and ITB, the thumbs were best.
Literature on most sites seems vague. Any one have experience on length of sessions? weekly frequency?
I think it is more to the comfort of the practitioner. Whatever way allows you to apply the technique with the least stress to practitioner is best. Also depends on what kind of feel you get from tissue. I personally prefer my thumbs for small areas. I use multiple fingers if working something like pecs. Try more translation of tissue versus compression. To much compression causes too much inflammation and duplicates the I=NF/AR formula.
What do you folks think of deep tissue massage? It’s the only thing I ever had access to and it hurts like a bitch. Surely one would be exposed to some ART techniques when getting a deep tissue massage right?
No, not at all. Maybe Mort can go into explaining differences that exist, but they aren’t the same, though many therapists may incorporate elements of both without thinking about it if they have been exposed.
Both can be equally effective for removing scar tissue. The main thing comes down to the practitioner because there are crappy masseuses and crappy ART practitioners alike (and good ones for both), but ART does give you a sort of minimum standard of care
Was able to get in and see the therapist who treats the vikings football team. He didn’t treat my hamstring much but focused on other areas he thought that was causing the tightness in my hamstring, gonna try and go in Tuesday morning for another session. He was very surprise that I have run the times I have this season with the problems I had going on in my hips etc.
I am also a massage therapist or at least went to school and graduated number one in 2 schools. The main difference is ART uses tissue translation and not deep compression. It is a very precise tool in the hands of someone who is experienced. Deep tissue is great when done properly. I think many tissue problems can be fixed with good tissue work, ART is just another tool in a practitioners tool box. Guys like Mike Prebeg, Steve Radovich, Mark Scappaticci have all transcended to higher levels beyond just ART. I have watched Prebeg work in person and it was amazing.
Deep tissue only hurts if one goes too fast. When you go to a practitioner who is trying to treat a large area in 60minutes then often they are just plowing through tissue. If you go someone goes really slow and you can learn to relax, it shouldn’t have much discomfort.
For ART, you need to go deep first (with flat contacts), then translate.
Also, getting deep tissue work would generally not expose you to any ART methods. ART uses client movements in 99.9% of the protocols.
Firstly, you do not break apart scar tissue:
http://www.physicaltherapyjournal.org/cgi/reprint/69/12/1014
Massage can be a means to an end for treating dysfunction. Often though, massage by itself is a temporary solution.
Graston is 99% of the time is the result of a lazy practitioner. One of the few instances it is more beneficial is when you have a small practitioner working on a large patient. It helps give some extra leverage and allows extra force to be used. However, if this is a necessity, if available, it’s better to get a larger/stronger practitioner.
Just because it takes you a while to feel warmed up doesn’t mean you have hamstring issues.
How can you say the best method for the patient is what it is most comforting for the practitioner? Hand massage is not comfortable. It’s damn work. Just because moving specifically molded metal is a hell of a lot easier than using your hands does not at all mean it is better for the patient.
Also, if you have a practitioner working 8 hours a day what’s most comfortable for him/her at 9am is unlikely going to be most comfortable for him/her at 4:30pm. Yet, if the first client of the day and the last client of the idea have the same exact issues, what’s best for the patient has not changed.
How did he diagnose your hamstrings as tight? What issues at the hip did he state?
The only thing I am saying is that the practitioner better be capable of delivering top technique, while minimizing damage to themselves. I can guarantee that you will not find an experienced practitioner who uses objects to apply better force. If you work tissue fro a long time, your hands get absolutely wrecked. Many ART practitioners end up with hand issues. I don’t agree with Graston unless the practitioner is top notch. It can be far too damaging in the hands of the inexperienced.
20 year old research?..myofibril repair is far different with contractile tissue than the generic skin model.
As for graston, leave the civil war tools for the lazy practitioners.