Along these lines, the metal required to fabricate a few make shift squat/bench stands is inexpensive and even if one does not know how to weld, the labor is relatively inexpensive.
If this, for whatever reason, is not an option, then a planning change may be something to think about such as:
But I would first recommend the scrap yard squat/bench stands and perform all auxiliary weight training the morning after the speed work.
By comparison, when I owned my own facility I bought the metal for 6 full power racks and benches and only paid $1200 (US). My wife and I bought the lumber, foam padding, and upholstery and upholstered the benches ourselves and a friend took care of the drilling and welding for the racks and bench frames.
To only make squat/bench stands, as opposed to full power racks, and benches would be much cheaper; and you could even get by without benches and floor press right their on the track.
Aside from ebay and classifieds, if you are in the US you can get used barbells and weight plates (even bumpers) at www.playitagainsports.com for very cheap
backsquat/atg squat and/or backsquat/clean varies from one athlete to another, but I would guess the typical athlete can back squat 20-25% more weight than he can atg squat, and the ratio would be even higher for the backsquat as compared to the clean.
Charlie said…
Before we get into too much of a chicken and egg argument, think first about weights as a stimulus towards the next HI session.
How much do you need? How much room do you have left in your current session to get it?
How do you measure it?
Understood. I was just thinking in theoretical terms, and wondering IF you did want maximum CNS stimulus in weightroom, which exercise would be considered the most CNS demanding.
Not to belabor the point, but would you consider the typical sub-elite sprinter to be a skilled lifter? Certainly the vast majority of high school athletes, and a very large majority of college age athletes, I have observed are not highly skilled at any of the lifts, and very few are anywhere near what would be considered very skilled at the Olympic lifts. I ask because the debate about the benefits of Oly lifts vs squat/deadlift variations seems to resurface on this and other boards with regularity. The comparison is usually focused on which is better for building either limit strength or explosive power. The use of a high intensity lift to provide a CNS stimulus is yet another angle. Since what works for elite athletes does not necessarily work for the sub-elite and lower, I was curious as to which lift you considered to be the best stimulus for lesser qualified athletes…or does it even matter for them.
Mark McKoy was skilled while others were not, so it is highly individual.
The point about “best stimulus” is again interesting. Is the best CNS stimulus for the elite sprinter higher than for the lesser performer or lower because of the extraordinary CNS stimulus from the sprinting?
In my humble opinion, the optimal stimulus would depend on the specific needs of that specific athlete at that specific point in training. For lesser athletes, I think I remember you saying that overstimulating the CNS wasn’t as much of a problem because lesser athletes aren’t as capable of tapping into the full CNS reserve as an elite athlete. I had this in mind when I asked my original question. Considering that lesser athletes are unlikely to be highly skilled at Oly lifts and may be able to withstand more CNS load in the weight room, since on the track they are not dipping as deeply into that resource as an elite athlete, I was curious as to which lift would provide the maximum CNS stimulus in the gym, if that was in fact what the athlete needed at that point in time. I personally feel that for lesser athletes, whose skill at performing the Oly lifts reduces the load to something like 50-60% of their backsquat, the explosive nature of the lift would not supercede the reduced intensity to provide a stronger stimulus. I have no data on this, its just a semi-educated opinion. What I’m not sure about is whether or not the full range of motion in the atg squat equats to more CNS stimulus even if the actual weight on the bar was 80% or less than would be lifted in the backsquat. I don’t really buy into the time-under-tension argument, because you could just squat slower. My personal feeling has always been that moving the greatest load in the most explosive manner possible over a reasonable range of motion hits my CNS reserves the hardest, as lifting in this manner always requires more attention to recovery, at least in my experience.
While I might possibly quibble over the CNS stress from Oly lifts or at least their proximity to sprinting on the F/T curve point, you’ve made a very thoughtful argument in favor of your choices and you’re right to follow your instincts here.
Charlie has stated that when the athlete starts the maintenance phase of the weights, that they should see a peak around week 5. He also stated that after approximately eight weeks the athlete will start losing (gym) strength. This is based on the 3-1-3-1 strength set-up. If the athlete is doing 12 weeks (which would be 3-1-3-1-3-1) does that mean the athlete will be able to maintain strength for longer into the season (say 12 weeks instead of 8) and would peak later (around week 7/8 instead of week 5/6 of the maintenance)?
That’s a difficult one to answer definitively because it depends not only on the length of the max str phase but also on the amount of change. The less dramatic the change, I think, the longer before any drop becomes problematic. Thoughts??
I did the maintenance program on the forum and maintain 90% of my strength after 5-6 months… I don’t think the strength drop off is as much as some people make it.
In a sprint program, 10% might be a significant drop but sounds like it would be well outside the performance window.
Another point: The designed ability to maintain strength should not shift the peak period farther out, which would require the lengthening of the prep period, it should help extend the peak period overall, starting from the same point.
I have found that the easiest way to ‘induce’ a peak performance is to go to maintenance weights, planning the peak period to be 5-6 weeks into the maintenance phase. However I am dabbling with the idea (if a suitable level of strength can actually be maintained for longer as Charlie states above) of raising the intensity of the running to two (very) high intensity days a week. I recognise that this will cause performances to not quite be where the athlete is capable in the lesser competitions, but with freshening up after a taper period for the big ones, I would expect to see a good rebound (this could also have the added psychological factor of giving the athlete a sense of no matter how they run they know that they will be capable of running quicker when and where it matters). An example of what I’m thinking of planning in the comp phase is set out below:
After Saturday competition
Mon: Tempo
Tue: 4x30, 80 100 120 150@100%; Weghts 2x3@85%
Wed: Tempo
Thur: 4x30 @95%
Fri: Rest or Warm up
Sat: Comp 100/200
Sun: Rest
i think you’d be at high risk for the meet if it is a high level athele
Thank’s for this advice. I will stick to what I know and keep the training intensity/volume as before. So once again it seems that the driver for the peaking is the freshening-up the athlete gets via the maintenance of the weights and the greater emphasis on the other HI elements.
Keep in mind that in athletes of advanced strength preparedness the residual for max strength may last up to 30 days with only minimal stimulatory loads.
Well this is what I get for pushing for a weight room renovation and then designing one that everyone wants to use
Yes, the first 4 week block should be pretty easy to figure out. Along with sharing the weight room with 11 other teams, I share my stadium with two soccer teams, so that presents another set of limits which would take us far off topic.
I won’t have to build anything. We have access to what we need. I stashed some of the old equipment in my storage container and the actual weight room s very close as well so we can “borrow” some of what we need.
After week #8 (second 4 week block) the schedule changes and my group can go back to afternoons.
Not sure if this germane or not, but at a presentation that I attended Bompa said that Max. St. blocks should not go beyond 8 weeks (3-1-3-1 set-up) in a single phase. He also said that for beginners it would be 4 weeks (3-1). He didn’t think that there was any return to gained by going longer.
