with intensive tempo sort of sessions, e.g. 6x200m @ 26secs on 2mins recovery, is it best to stick to the designated recovery time or maintain the set pace?
also would that sort of session be useful as part of a 100/200m runner’s pre season work?
What is your 200m pb and why is a time set in stone for everyone?
i’m a 200/400m runner doing 22.0 in the 200, 50 in the 400. i do it with another guy who runs 24 and we just adjust it so its the same percentage of his pb - i think he was running the 5x200s in 26.9 when i was doing them at 25.0. so it goes on time, not intensity.
same goes for the 100/200 guy, except his recovery was 3mins instead of 2mins
This sounds like a kitkat type of 400m workout, with 5 or 6 x 200 at the come home pace. I certainly can’t speak for kitkat, but my understanding of his use of this workout is to adapt the body to the come home pace under race-like conditions. If you currently run a 22.0 200m, I think most race pace models suggest first 200m in 1.0-1.5 seconds slower than your 200m PB, which would have you run your first 200m in 23.0-23.5secs. Your second 200m is paced at about 2-3 secs slower than the first. This would then be a 25.0-26.5secs come home pace. Since you’re running 50.0 for the 400m, I’m assuming you’re running something like 23.5/26.5=50.0
So, if you are using a kitkat workout, your new goal would be a 26.0 second 200m, and my understanding of kitkat’s workout would be for you to shoot for running 6 x 200m in 26.0 secs off of 2 mins rest.
And now to the heart of your question…my limited understanding leads me to think that the important thing is the adaption to the appropriate come home pace, so the pace seems to be more important. Hitting 26.0 every time, taking the minimum rest required to do that, and decreasing the rest between reps until you can hit the 6 x 200m in 26.0 secs off of 2 mins rest. Then, you adjust to a new target, such as 6 x 200m in 25.5 secs off of x mins rest until you again reach 2mins, and on and on.
Importantly, you need to work on your first 200m time as well, because if you can’t bring that time down, you will be limited in your ability to improve your come home 200. With your current PB of 22.0, your best splits for the 400m will probably be 23.0/25.0=48.0, even if you are in tip top shape, endurance-wise. I also think there is something to performing 6 reps, rather than 4. It goes without saying that the 5th and 6th rep will be much harder, and more probably match the stress of running a 26.0 immediately after running a 24.0…back to back with no rest between reps.
At least, this is my understanding of the info kitkat has discussed in the Lactate Threshold thread.
thanks
if it’s any help, we’re doing them once a week on a progression starting at 10x200s @ 30s and working down each week - i.e. 9x200 @ 29s, 8x200 @ 28s etc.
also have a short speed and a longer speed day in there as well - not that it’s really relevant
Will you ever reach 1x200m in 20s? Sounds very like the serious planning issues found in the Van’02 and Edmonton Downloads!
There was a new-hire coach who enlightened me on that progression when I was in college. This guy inherited a couple of hero D3 sprinters (21.0x and 21.4x). After his plan was implemented, I never heard from those two sprinters again.
Yup. it’s right there in the “how not to do it” section.
In my case- I do only weight lifting and couple of 30 m once or twice per week, that’s enough. my PB on 60m is 6,96. Two weeks ago, I tried 400 m with time of 50,53 (25,5 + 25,0) !! Without tempo session and intensive run. my PB on 200 m is only 22,40. And it’s 7 or 8 years what I trained like devil and ran 400 m only 52,5. Could anybody explane me why it is possible? Maybe less is more?
How long have you been training like that?
What was your training like before or has that been the only training you do?
What were your prs before that kind of training or your prs when you were just starting out?
the plan is to go to 2x(2x200s) on 24s w. 3mins b’ween reps and 8 mins between sets, then 3x200s at 23 on full recoveries (i.e. 8-15mins) - because that’s about what i’d want to do in the race - + it allows me to become accustomed to, and get the feel for that pace (the other guy’s pace will be adapted accordingly to their 200m splits but i want to be running mine in 23.4 and 25.6).
thats the only day when we do anything like that. we work off a concurrent development program - short speed going short-long, and long speed going long-short. don’t get the idea that it’s all about volume because it’s not, and speed has been the focus for us lately which has brought great results. this is just pre-season 400m work, and the first time we’ve tried anything like this - so i don’t have anything to compare it to yet.
it is in no way the cornerstone of our training.
as we move closer to the season the lactate work moves towards quality with long recoveries - as noted above with the 4x200s being broken into 2 sets, and the 3x200s on full recoveries to allow for greater quality and consistency.
Sounds more like split-run special endurance than intensive tempo, though i’d split the sets by more than 8 min.
i’d definitely agree with that, that’s a tough session, and yeah, i guess it’s moving more towards special endurance than intensive tempo now.
so go for quality - i.e. sticking to the times, rather than trying to do them in the designated recoveries? or does that come down to what you’re trying to get out of it?
Precisely 
just to whoever doubted i was doing enough speed work, i ran a wind assisted 10.78 on a dead track on saturday, previous pb was 11.45. can’t wait to run a 400m but i wasn’t well enough this week
And what kind of timing was that using
hand timed - so it’s really a 11.02. still good to get down in that sorta range though, cos my other pb was hand timed as well.
training at the moment is mon, tues, thurs on grass for the school competition season (i’m trying to get to a track to do speed work)- monday being a sort of recovery/technique/rhythm session with extensive tempo and a bit of the intensive tempo for 400m guys, tues is speed i.e.120s-150s sort of thing and thurs is starts, up to 8 second stuff.
what is the general opinion on controlling peaking? how long does it usually take to happen for 200/400m and how long does it last? i’m looking to peak in 4 weeks for the c.a.s champs and need to be back up at that level 3 weeks after that for state.
Thats great that your improving, but I wouldnt look up at the times if you run at a FAT timing meet and expect to run 11.02.
Just to let yoou know 120’-150’s are speed endurance not speed development work.