Why is the U.S. Government to be held responsible TODAY for actions commited hundreds of years ago before the Union was even formed? How often do you hear spain or portugal weeping about the Native American Indian’s they slaughtered? The majority of the slaves brought throughthe middle passage were shipped to the WEST INDIES (carribean) NOT the United States. You make it out as if Uncle Sam came riding out on his big white steed with a machine gun and an American flag and killed “95-98% of the indigenious population of the americas…” and then proceeded to ford the atlantic on his horse, and drag one by one 100 million africans into the ocean and drown them. C’mon.
Don’t get me wrong, now. I’m not sayin’ that America ain’t done some pretty stupid mean and nasty sh*t; hell, almost every country has something disgustingly inhuman in their history, but if you follow your line of logic you should be asking for repiration’s from the Mongolian government for invading you great great great grandfather’s sheepfarm in eastern Europe.
It seems like you’re taking in only those facts which benefit your opinion. I’ve been known to make some pretty big assumptions (eh, martn76?), but if you know more than those facts which you presented you’re obviously ignoring them, or they just don’t matter to you.
Almost all of the testing cases are now believed to be a result of the demolition of chemical weapons factories and other facilities, this is coroborated by Marine field reports. There is one incidence of a SCUD triggering alarms, but it was an isolated case.
On the one hand, you are right that many countries have done something “disgustingly inhuman in their history.” And America was not the only country that was involved with slavery. However, America benefited tremendously from slavery from 1776-1865 -almost a 100yrs. Considering, even countries like Germany have to make reparations to the German Jews for the atrocities of the Nazi regime, while America has not made reparations to its former slaves… This is contrary to America’s assertion of/for justice and fairness.
Nevertheless, countries that have made reparations is far and few in between. For America, it becomes a lot more complex to criticize other countries and promote values that we have not adhere to…
Bitch Session…I am 20 percent native american and 30 percent mexican and 50 percent spanish. Should I hate myself because my spainard ancestors killed my incan ancestors? Still no solutions but pissing contests of who has better history or “CIA” info. Someone make a difference…
Yes we are going off on a tangent, but the points being made about the past demonstrate the abuse of power by past"super powers" whether they were spaniards or British or American. Al-Qaeda did not just grow out of nothing, yes it has its roots in wahabism; but we must understand the part played by the CIA and the US administrations of the 1960s onwards. The US deliberately propped up some very unsavoury and greedy leaders (the Shah of Iran) and the relatively unpopular Saudi and Kuwaiti royal families. Resentment has been simmering compounded by countless US administrations supporting Israelis’ whether right or wrong. There are alot of young very angry Arab men out there who percieve the US as unfair and one-sided and to be honest, when you look at the situation in the middle east objectively, you are inclined to think that they have a MAJOR point.
No you should not hate yourself, but those states who commited these crimes and they are crimes, should remember the past and try to learn from this and to acknowledge they did wrong and not to support unworkable campaigns that may lead to suffering. If you look at the “coalition” that went to Iraq you will see that those nations who have become wealthy through exploitation of others in recent centuries gone, were the main protagonists, US, Spain, United Kingdom and Italy.
Flash
All the arguements are good but unconvincing to the other side because they are over 20sec long and therefore beyond the prevailing attention span.
That’s why I prefer Mark Twain and Will Rogers quotes. Besides, humor is ultimately the most powerful weapon, regardless of political persuasion, because it undermines the seriousness of politics in general. It’s much harder to effectively wield power if you’ve been turned into a punchline.
The emperor has not clothes. It’s just a matter of having the courage to ignore the courtiers and laugh at the idiot prancing around in his nickers. Even if you’re the only one doing it.
First, Saddam is not Bin Laden, but they are both monsters. Second DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH by telling me that I don’t care about the innocent Iraqi people. You have no idea on what I feel. There is no question that many, many innocent lives have been taken, including American soldiers
By telling me, along with basically every other American, that we are so brain washed is not going get you anywhere in this topic. It seems like you have hatred towards the American people. Saddam was a threat to the American people, maybe not to you, but to the American people for sure. He had plots to take out schools, he tried assassinate our president. And they have found millions of tons of explosives that are used to make WMDs. Yes we helped him with Iran, yes at one time we were friends with Bin laden, and things have obviously changed. Just like our relationships with many countries. That is why we look are our history.
I know dozens of people serving and fighting over in Iraq. They all come home and say the same thing; they say many Iraqi people thank them every day for what we did.( yes believe it, people are thankful in Iraq) Only a few few Saddam loyalists are pissed. The troop’s comeback home and say that most of the media has it wrong. (But I am so brain washed I would not know the difference) we could go on and on with this argument. You think Saddam was not a threat, I along with many including John Kerry, the United States senate, and congress know he was a threat. They might not agree with everything. But they sure as hell think he was a threat, and that is why the vote passed to go to war. And for playing what if games, how can we not take WMDs seriously, we did with Russia, and we did with Saddam. And we do with North Korea, Iran and others.
Saddam is a monster who would hurt us if he had a chance.
“By telling me, along with basically every other American, that we are so brain washed is not going get you anywhere in this topic. It seems like you have hatred towards the American people.”
I don’t think anyone here has any hatred to the American people at all !!!
I honestly think most people outside of the USA are simply amazed at how selectively informed the Bush supporters are. They have all these little tibits of info on certain subjects and that’s good enough for them. Don’t do any research or anything. And if anyone contradicts the Bush administration, they’re just Liberal pussies or the Liberal media. I can bet you probably watch the FOX news (comedy) channel to get all of your news. I might be wrong.
I would think that most of the people in uniform over there think they’re doing something good. Can you imagine how terrible it would be for them to be over there thinking that they’re actually not doing something good for their country. It would all be for not and they would go nuts. They have to think they’re doing good, protecting the nation and the world, Cleansing it of evil doers.
Where are these reports about Saddam planning assasinations on the Pres or him wanting to bomb schools? Can you provide a link to a credible news source on these? I think we know he was a threat but was he an “Immediate threat?” I really don’t think so.
When you’re talking about Russia are you meaning during the Cold War? At least we know they have nukes and had proof of this. At least we saw them with ships of goodies coming down to Cuba for a little party with some giant missles. Like the CIA report said, they had no WMD and they were heading backwards in their capabilties.
So I guess we’re there so we might as well finish the job. The smartest thing the US could do would be to send more troops but I guess they can’t.
Perhaps I should post a picture of Mohon’s back (great motivational speaker now) after loosing a game of soccer? Again we continue to have Monday morning chair quarterbacks giving advise on passing and I can’t help but laugh at the great solutions and efforts of those who do nothing. I would be interested in someone listing what their respective country has done of late for international freedom. Anyone wish to share?
You mean, like Aus taking up the invitation to head up the peace keeping, rebuilding and overseeing the independence of East Temor or peace keeping and training police worces and administration in the Solomons? Just a shame we jumped on GW’s bandwagon in order for John Howard to secure a legacy through a free trade agreement. Or were you thinking more along the lines of our governments implementing such freedom inspiring legislation such as the Patriot Act ?
I hope you’re not suggesting that the situation in Iraq or Afghansitan are genuine attempts at liberating these countries or that they are going the right way about it? Even Rummy is conceding that a sustainable democracy or peace in these countires may be a little too much to hope for. It’s amazing that the US administration are only now begining to understand what what many were saying before the war.
There can be little doubt America has made a difference in areas of conflict, however under Bush, unlike Clinton, it seems like he is only willing to do it as long as it is in the interests of the US corporate oligarchy, and only does what is needed to appease it. Afghanistan is in tatters, but hey they’re gonna have a nice gas pipeline running through it shortly, and too bad if vital infrastructure such as power, water and hospitals were destroyed in Iraq - at least the Ministry of Oil was unscathed and the first complex to be secured in Bagdad.
Freedom?
We PRACTICE it by keeping people like Ashcroft out of our Government!
What have we done for you lately?
When push has come to shove, Canada has been in the forefront of sending troops in the cause of freedom and we have suffered 117,000 killed and over 330,000 wounded with a population of less than a tenth of the USA. Hardly any Canadian families were untouched by these numbers, mine included, so I don’t appreciate being lectured about responsibility by Chickenshit, draft-dodging war-profiteers like Bush and Cheney!
We participated in the first Gulf War and in Afganistan, but this time, when our Prime Minister asked for proof that the International weapons inspectors were wrong, the Bush Administration claimed that they had proof but couldn’t share it because it was “too sensitive”! In those conditions the PM declined to get involved in the invasion of a Sovereign Nation, which would be in clear violation of international law without proof of an imminent threat.
Saddam was not Hitler, Hitler was Hitler! And, when War was declared in Sept 1939, we were there. The US came in after they were attacked at Pearl Harbour in Dec 1941 by Japan, causing Germany declared war on the US under its treaty obligation to Japan. Likewise, in WW1, we were there in August of 1914, three long years before the US.
So, get your head out of your Gameboy and read some history.
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