Ok, how short does the amortization phase have to be for it to be considered a plyo?
Better yet. How long does the stretch reflex last?
dude how can you can squat jump or skip a plyo- im just curious. im not an expert on plyos bc i have never done them really. just dont think the risk is worth it.
In nature and by definition a plyo uses the SSC and involve the 3 phases (Eccentric, Amortization, and Concentric). There are different level of plyos and traditional skipping and hopping would obviously be included in the lowest level.
The only exception as you mentioned in your earlier posts would be “jumps” which have a pause aka too long of an amortization phase. How long I do not know. The stretch reflex would have to be dissipated(?).
A simple hop would have a amortization which would not be long enough to be consisered a pause as neither would a skip.
the movements u r talking bout are what i do on my low intensity bc the cns stress is low, so i wouldnt consider them plyos. plyos to me are depth drop/depth jumps/hurdle jumps everything else is jumps…
On your low intensity days you ARE doing low level plyos. Like it or not. lol.
This discussion was not really about what YOU consider a plyo. But by definition what a plyo actually is.
lol, like it or not its simple they are called jumps. let me think u were asking me i could care less what u think about something soo simple.
For example, every person that has been to a physician has experienced a plyometric event. When the doctor tapped under your kneecap, causing your leg to jerk, what do you think he/she was checking? The tapped caused a sudden stretch of the tendon that connects to all of the quadriceps (i.e. the muscle involved in extending the knee). Small receptors within the quadriceps create a stretch reflex, which makes the quadriceps responded by contracting explosively. The stretch reflex that caused the leg to extend is called the “myotatic reflex” and is the basis of plyometric physiology. The most common human movement, running, is completely a plyometric event. Other common plyometric events include throwing, swinging a golf club/bat, jumping and skipping!
By Juan Carlos Santana, MEd, CSCS
Gentlemen, all of these questions are clearly answered in Facts and Fallacies of Fitness by Siff.
Some excerpts if you don’t have a copy:
“Plyometrics or the ‘shock method’ means precisely that - a method of applying mechanical shock to force the muscle to produce as much tension as possible. Depth jumps involving an explosive rebound after a relaxed drop from a height onto the ground are the best known form of lower body plyometrics. However, this shock loading may be imposed by any explosive action of the upper or lower extremities involving sudden changes of direction, not just with the legs. For example, a typical upper body plyometric drill is the rapid rebound throwing of a medicine ball between two athletes or off a mini-trampoline.”
“If the transition phase is prolonged by more than about 0.2 seconds, the action constitutes ordinary jumping and not classical plyometrics. A useful visualization is to imagine that the surface being touched by the hands or the feet during the plyometric contact phase is red hot, so that any prolonged contact would be dangerous.”
“Two broad classes of plyometrics may be recognized: impact plyometrics and non-impact plyometrics. During impact plyometrics the rebound is stimulated by contact with a surface or object, whereas the recoil in non-impact plyometrics is mediated by explosive eccentric action of the muscles that produce the movement. Depth jumps are a typical example of impact plyometrics, while snap kicks or rapidly-retracted punches in boxing or the martial arts exemplify non-impact plyometrics. Depending on the power of the movements, non-impact plyometrics may also be maximal or submaximal.”
Hope that helps to clarify a thing or two. There is much more in the section on “Plyometrics” in the book.
Thanks dude, doesnt get any easier then that.
.2
That is what I was looking for. Which means
Jumping rope and playing hop scotch are both plyometric.
What is not being differentiated here is the difference of plyometric activities vs. plyometric training while everything we disccused here is in fact plyometric. That cannot be argued.
This is the reason Verkoshansky has always constantly favored the use of the term “shock method” instead of “plyometrics”. (Supertraining)
Just being a dick here but I bet hop scotch and jumping rope are .2 or longer contact unless you are doing them with high intensity. And yes I have a contact mat. Hell alot of our depth jumps can be upwards of .15 to .17.
Yes QUIK, they are. The distinction would be that jumping rope and playing hop scotch are not considered classical plyometric activities but rather supplemental or preparatory drills.
From Facts/Fallacies book:
“A key issue to the whole plyo training concept lies in the fact that there is a difference between plyometric training and plyometric action. The former refers to the use of rebound or ‘shock’ type methods (as its renowned popularizer, Dr. Verkhoshansky, named it decades ago) as a formal system of training, whereas the latter refers to any actions which involve rapid stretch-shortening (with both reflex facilitated muscle contraction and the release of eccentrically stored elastic energy). Now, these actions occur very commonly during running, sprinting, hurdling, jumping and numerous other sporting activities, so that athletes regularly taking part in these activities may well be performing quite sufficient plyometric’ training.”
Nice. Because in Supertraining (few years earlier than Facts and Fallicies) Siff mentions… If the trasition phase is prolonged by more than about .15 second the action may be considered to constitute ordinary jumping and not classical training plyometrics.(Siff 266)
But again the key word is training plyometrics. This does not mean the movement is not a plyometric or not plyometric in nature.
And also why Siff, in an attempt to avoid confusion, suggested using the term “powermetric training”! On any account there are many different types and levels of plyometric training and one should simply be mindful and appreciate the differences between all types.
Glad we’re on the same page. No pun intended. 
Now. Just to recap. Going back to UT’s original post…
“skips and hop are not plyo, they are jumps”
End of discussion.
ut,
what would you call hurdle hops then? charlie named them as plyometrics and frequently used in his athletes program?
i stated in a earlier post that depth drops/depth jumps/hurdle jumps
so why are skips jumps and hurdle hops are plyo’s? where are the differences?