Carson- thanks for the response but it is not clear to me what “synergy” is necessary. Precisely what level of upper body strength is necessary to complement lower body strength? Why would I have to increase my natural upper body strength if this makes no contribution to my running speed?
There are all sorts of sports from cycling to gymnastics and soccer where there is “uneven” muscular development but that is dicatated by the specific demands of the sport. There is no suggestion of lack of synergy in such cases simply a reflection of the requirements of the sport. Why should sprinting be any different?
Sprinting is so hip dominant. Tim Montgomery was running under 10 seconds back when he had a very scrawny upper body and probably couldn’t bench 200 pounds. Where is the evidence that upper body strength (or more specifically, bench press strength)enhances sprint speed. Again, I think it’s a myth and merely helps those guys look buff in those one piece outfits…
Young, W., D. Benton, G. duthie. 2001. Resistance training for short sprints and maximum speed s[rints. Journal of Strength and Conditioning, 23(2): 7-13
Arm action contributes 5-10% of total vertical propulsion at top speed and also a smaller percentage of horizontal propulsion during acceleration phase. There is a significant correlation between bench bress and 40m sprint performance.
“There is a significant correlation between bench bress and 40m sprint performance.”
I guess that’s why Kim Collins, who doesn’t do any weights thrashes Dwain Chambers (the guy with the big bench press) every single time over the first 40m
I’m with sdblue on this one. I’ve seen a lot of sprinters who have made substantial strength increases on their bench press, pull up, dip, bent over row, military press and push press and end up with a slower acceleration…
Originally posted by Donm79
You’re absolutely right. It’s impossible for that correlation to exist if Collins beats Dwain.
Collins may have excellent upper body strength for all we know? His relative upper body strength may be more than Dwains. Even so, this is a strong statement to make. Dwain has a much faster PB that Collins. You can’t go on this season, especially the last head to head as Dwain was running with a very obvious limp.
I believe that upper body strength is crucial to acceleration. Probably not as important to max v.
Probably the biggest downside of benching is the upper body tightness and how it affects your stride and rhythm. Therapy is crucial.
The set up of max speed can be assisted by acceleration…no? more chicken and egg stuff maybe. good point.
Haha yes, everything in this game seems to be about chickens and eggs doesn’t it! We all want to get on the high speed merry go round but we need to collect all the tokens first
Good Point David W. Many "Buff " looking individuals look strong but aren’t.
From a PL background I’d say that if I had to choose one form of lifting for a sprinter it would be the PL’s to expand ones strength potential. Of course this would be in conjunction with sprints, plyo’s etc. I really do like David’s idea with the squat and snatch though.
Collins may have excellent upper body strength for all we know? His relative upper body strength may be more than Dwains. Even so, this is a strong statement to make. Dwain has a much faster PB that Collins. You can’t go on this season, especially the last head to head as Dwain was running with a very obvious limp.
I believe that upper body strength is crucial to acceleration. Probably not as important to max v.
Probably the biggest downside of benching is the upper body tightness and how it affects your stride and rhythm. Therapy is crucial.
I agree. I thought everyone would see the sarcasm dripping off my previous statement. I was trying to make the point that Neospeed was making an argument based on one case - and a flawed one at that, as DavidW and others have pointed out.
Olympic lifting. Many people mistakenly believe that olympic lifters do not lift for max strength in addition to all of the work on the classic lifts and their variations. So much of the olympic lifters’ program is spend on strength exercises and not just the high speed/high skill lifts. We know that the power outputs are higher. Many powerlifting programs do not train the velocity or speed strength side of power and only work on force development for they feel, right or wrong, that it is unnecessary. Certainly programs like Westside would not be included among these.
Originally posted by Donm79
Assistance lifts are used by both weightlifters and powerlifters. Here is the menu of lifts to choose from:
Weightlifter: Clean&Jerk, Snatch, Clean, Jerk, Front Squat, Back Squat, Power Clean, Power Snatch, Hang P Clean, Hang P Snatch, Snatch-grip DL, Romanian DL, Clean Pull, Snatch Pull
Powerlifter: Half squats (parallel), box squats, conventional deadlifts, sumo deadlifts, good mornings, bench press, military press, incline press, assistance work for triceps, biceps, lats, and lower back.
Here are a few more for the OL:
Split snatch, split jerk, hang snatch below the knee, hang clean below the knee, box snatch, box clean, box split snatch, push press, rail squats, jumps onto boxes
I’m not sure that it really matters. Neither style is specific to sprinting. Powerlifting and Olympic Lifting provide general strength benefits only. The key is to improve relative strength of the important muscle groups involved in sprinting.
In addition to the strength benefits coming from Olympic lifting there are also improved RFD’s and power outputs to be derived from such training. Though certainly general in nature can further assist a sprinter. I’d like to add to the list of olympic lifting exercises two of my favorites; mid-thigh pulls and squat-presses.
Yes oly lifters do include some max strength work and more powerlifters are beginning to include more speed strength work. I interpreted the issue as if you could pick one purely what would it be(SQ/BP/DL vs. Classic C+J/Snatch). Obviously a combination would be best.
(I’m not sure that it really matters. Neither style is specific to sprinting. Powerlifting and Olympic Lifting provide general strength benefits only. The key is to improve relative strength of the important muscle groups involved in sprinting).
I was responding to the original question regarding training as either an olympic lifter OR a powerlifter. If the question is would it be better to combine elements featured in the two different styles for optimal results, I would agree.
