Olympic Lifts

[system]

@James_Smith

I understand your point.

What I must clarify is that, regarding my two guys, the reason for the different exercises is due to limitation- not selective decision making with respect to what will most benefit their development.

To clarify, the one who belt squats does so because his femurs are so long, relative to his torso, that the barbell squat is simply an unnatural movement for him regardless of his joint positions/angles. The one who single leg squats does so because he doesn’t like squatting.

For both, some form of leg strengthener is necessary; however, the means by which it is realized is irrelevant. I am in a position to state that because there was no forethought on any of our behalves.

The exercise selection happened in about 10sec when I combined what they wanted to do with what I thought (ergo ‘ok you do this and you do that and let’s see how it goes’). I am afforded this type of care free thinking because of the careful approach I take in regulating the workload of all training elements.

So, per this example, I’m talking about general leg strengtheners.

Going back to what is absolutely necessary and what is not…

While certain/many programs swear by the efficacy of the weightlifts- here’s what I’d like to point out:

While certain world class athletes are proficient at the weightlifts- attaining high results in them is unnecessary for attaining world class results.

What’s interesting to note, however, is that the only means of truly assessing whether one is proficient at the weightlifts is to have them weightlift. I state this because the means by which most assess their efficacy has very little to do with their performance; because it doesn’t really matter how much they can clean or snatch. What matters is how much farther are they jumping, throwing, and ultimately sprinting faster.

This is what typically takes priority in the testing process, because of the greater relevance to sprinting: jumps, throws, and various sprint variations/distances. It is the particular overload associated with the weightlifts that renders them weaker in transference than jumps and throws for example.

So I’d like to bring everyone back to the fact that very impressive jump and throw distances/heights as well as sprint times are seen void of weightlifts in the program as well as other exercises such as squats, or bench press, or what ever.

The question I have for coaches who are proponents of the weightlifts to the point where it seems as if they feel the lifts are fundamental towards their athletes’ performances, is: what does the rest of the program consist of because I would wager that a simple rearrangement could obviate their role in the training.

Remember, what we know, void of theory, is that a strong enough stimulus on one point of the F(t) curve has an impact on other areas of the curve.

Thus, other than the competition activity (which MUST be performed) all we know is that other point(s) of the curve must be addressed in order to further the competition result.

What we cannot know to a certainty, however, is the means via which this different, or these different, stimuli must be realized.

Here’s something to consider: one should be cautious of gleaning too much from programs that claim dependence upon a particular exercise so unlike the competition exercise itself.

My feeling is that coaches who think that the success of their athletes sport results is dependent upon a particular exercise such as an Olympic lift have, to the contrary, generated a programming strategy that is dependent upon the performance of the weightlifts- something altogether different than a particular sport discipline that demands the training of some other exercise in order to heighten its result.

To summarize, it is my feeling that it is the coach and program, not the athlete and not the sport discipline, that has the potential to create dependence upon particular exercises other than the competition exercise itself.

I have bolded some of your points/comments that I want to address–

1. Your decision to and reasons for changing the exercise selection may have taken little thought and were not for any particular reason, but inherently give what is an example (albeit minor) of how the same exercise and have different effects in different individuals. The guy with long femurs is going to experience a different stimulus from the squat. A person who has a psychological disposition against the squat will inherently give a different effort and there is plenty of data on the psychological aspects of lifting and how it can be beneficial (or detrimental). While this may seem unimportant, subjective feelings clearly can play a role as to how an individual’s programming should be organized as objective data on the matter does not exist, yet.

2. You are right in that there are impressive results in throws/jumps/sprints without weightlifts, but there are also impressive jumps without sprints or throws and even without impressive jumps of other varieties. There are impressive throws without impressive jumps or sprints, but with impressive lifts (Reese Hoffa) and more. I think your point here may obscure things because the other point is that, while proficiency in lifts may be best determined by weightlifting result (though I don’t necessarily agree with that since you already brought up how different limb lengths and proportions will affect the ability in a given lift), it does not address how certain things may have a carry over in teaching. For example, both Pfaff and Vince Anderson have explained how they have had great success in using olympic lifts to help teach athletes to fully extend and push from the blocks and during early acceleration. Was this the only way they taught this? No, but to dismiss that it had a positive effect that may have not been able to be achieved otherwise within that setting is difficult and problematic IMO.

3. Everything on the F(t) curve will have an effect elsewhere on the curve, but that doesn’t mean everything has the same effect or that the curve alone is the only thing that relates to transference. You mentioned VJ and throwers in another thread, yet if we look at the results of some of the top throwers in the world, their Olympic lifts far surpass their abilities in the VJ. Not all of them test, but some do. Reese Hoffa has great lifts, but his vertical jump is weak in comparison. Some highly successful coaches have eluded to the fact that there may be some hidden or unknown benefits from certain exercises. Again, that isn’t saying they are an absolute requirement, but if it is available and it is the best tool, why not use it? Pfaff et al have a higher correlation between OHB throw and sprinting than most jump movements, which are going to be much closer to sprinting on the F(t) curve AND use more similar musculature.

4. I am sure there are some coaches who feel a single exercise is absolutely necessary, but I think we are beyond talking about that. The point here I think is the opposite–people who are against a set of exercises (weightlifts) in all circumstances that involve non-weightlifters. That seems equally absurd and empirically would be true. There are many roads to Rome, but the same road won’t get everyone there the same way depending on what they are bringing with them to the table. If you are naturally incredibly elastic, you may need to get there a different way. If you are incredibly strong and have less elasticity or you have unusually long levers or whatever else, you again may need to get there a different way.