Need some help with GPP.

CF Product Discussions GPP Essentials
6

For the tempo, I think it was said the intensity should always be about 65-75% of PB time for that distance; would you time PB 100m on grass and base your target time on that or just base it off of track+spike PB for example (of course, assuming tempo will be on grass)? For 200m, is it okay to just double target 100m tempo time or would you have to take a 200m time and calculate? (I’m currently not interested in anything longer than 100m except for necessary training purposes).

You are asking some excellent questions that are practical because a great deal of this information is very technical and while theoretical the methods have been tried over and over again and work.
I think the best way to explain what is needed for tempo is you need to find the right amount of runs that you can do in order to repeat each run as evenly ( same speed) as possible for the entire number of sets.
For example.
While it’s great to tell people to run 2 sets of 10 x 100 meters I have never seen any beginner or inexperienced athlete start with this volume.
Here is where things become a bit tricky.
Where do you start?
Well it depends.
Sight unseen = for me to say exactly would be irresponsible on my part. I have to watch and see how things are technically before I know what could be done.
As a rule you always start with less and add over time carefully. Everyone is tempted to do more.
Many people would not be able to handle the volume of two thousand meters of tempo to begin. ( 2 sets of 10 x 100 )
Maybe you start with 50 meter runs / walk 50 meters. You see how many you can do within the volume above.
Likely doing 20 x 50 meters is going to be faster however right? Much faster . This is a problem especially if you don’t have a coach watching, timing and regulating.
Doing 80 meters instead of 100 meters might be a good place to start and 80 meter walk back.
Repeat this. If you can’t do 6 consistently and well I would try 3 , each with a 80 meter walk back and 160 meter walk between sets and do another set of 3 @ 80 meters.
My guess is for a few weeks this is a start and then add another set for another 2 weeks. Do you understand the idea?
YOu see many people might not be fit enough to start off running repeat 100’s at any pace.
Another issue is having enough fitness to deal with this amount of load all of a sudden. This is where doing some tempo in a pool and or on the bike might jump start your recovery from the tempo. Remember we are not even discussing speed work.

7

I am not very experienced and tend to be very easily overtrained and get overuse injuries, so I really want to make sure I start with something good before I get enough experience to start tweaking and individualizing. As a relatively new guy in strength and conditioning industry, I have a lot in my tool boxes (like exercises, drills), but not really have good judgement on when to use proper tools, which I think is mainly due to myself being self-coached for the most part. I really wish I had a training partner and good video camera so I can see if my technique is good…

Don’t give up on trying to learn more about sprinting. Understand there is a huge technical aspect to sprinting that requires a solid understanding of important rules that you will learn to follow. Try to find someone or somewhere to go in order to learn more about the right way to do things. Where might that be? Look for someone producing consistent results. I know this Is not such an easy task. Why? There are a lot of people who succeed in spite of themselves and poor and un methodological training.
Judgement by the way comes with knowledge and experience I have found it’s a very difficult aspect to teach others. One thing I sense from you is impatience. This trait will drive you to more knowledge or the frustration you have will drive you to solve more training issues… either way try not to rush and keep learning. Sounds like you are on the right path.

8

Check this out…
Many dancers as well as runners have learned a great deal about proper technique from watching other great runners run. ( or other dancers dance)
I hope you enjoy this as much as I did.
I have great respect for dancers. It’s an awesome athletic event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IgepP4UNwA

9

Hello. It makes sense to me that explosive med ball would be done first now that you explained it well. With tempo, I didn’t think about the length of grass being another factor, and I appreciate that insight.

I remember hearing about HRV in college class and reading about it on one of the forums here. I’ll have to see if android phones have such apps too.

Thank you.

10

I like to always start my clients, no matter their goal, on Two hard sessions per week.

It’s always easier to add in another session Later on and compare improvement.

eg, If you start on three sessions Now, and progress is not so great, Where do you go? It’s easier to add one in later than it is for most to remove one hard session.
A lot of people think more is better - and telling them that only Two session per week is all they need, is, difficult.

The supercompensation Graph does this wonderfully - i use it daily.

11

Hello. Although I would have to re-read to find details, I remember that Speed Trap was like history of Coach Francis’s life, which includes his own athletic career, early coaching career meeting his young new athletes, and developing them into world class athletes. I think I remember such things as him believing in intuition of his athletes, like how he let Ben Johnson drop long SE. I know hills are for mimicing mechanics of acceleration at low speed, med balls are training of explosive power and elasticity as well as drills that prepare athlete for proper sprint mechanics, and tempo is for sprinter specific aerobic conditioning (thus not detrimental with fiber conversion), as well as helpful with staying warm, active recovery, etc.

Flat on ground start is shown on chart at 44:08 of GPP video, but Coach Francis doesn’t specifically address the drill itself. Is start on 32:56 the flat start and 32:20 the pushup start?

Regarding frequency, Coach Francis tend to be using three speeds (2 speed+1SE) routine the most when he talks about routines on key concepts book, so I thought that’s what’s most appropriate for most athletes. Maybe that schedule is only for world class athletes or those with such potential.

I agree that a lot can be learned from watching others that excel. I learned a lot from watching other coaches before, and made my form much better with many drills, and same thing can happen in actual sprints. I always use imagery and picture myself with that nice full hip extension on all strides and knee drives, driven by good arms, coming out at 45 degree angle with low heel recovery to higher recovery as I come up at perfect timing, and being bouncy like a spring even though it’d be difficult to achieve a lot of these things in reality. I believe such training helps get close to my potential.

My original plan for tempo was, that I’d probably do the big circuit with 65% speed, which would make it lower end of the intensity and work my way upto 75% eventually. However, if I’m not in shape to even do that, I would need a different approach, and I really appreciate your recommendation.

With judgement, a lot of that seem to be instinctual, which I lack, but I really wish apprenticeship was common in such field, as Coach Francis mentioned in CFTS book. It’s very difficult to find good master and even more difficult to convince them to want to have acceptance as an apprentice unless you’re really good already.

I hope to continue building experience, hopefully meet a few good other coaches from work/seminars and as I train, build a good network with other athletes.

Thank you for your encouragement and help, I’ll keep doing what I can.

12

Hello.

It is probably true that two speed a week is what I have better chance with for now.

I am just concerned about whether I’d be able to tweak things properly to make it work.

I understand the principle of supercompensation (beat down appropriately by work, then recovering over base line) but it’s really hard to know how much “beat down” is appropriate and when I’m at supercompensation part of the curve, and not on early recovery below previous baseline or regression to baseline, as 48 hour rule is too general. I need more experience.

Thank you for your inputs.

13

good ideas Boldwarrior.
I think the graph is a helpful as well as more than 70 percent of people learn visually. It is not always so easy to show people why you have chosen the methods you are using will be effective.

14

In planning for SPP…

I got an impression that week 7 of the GPP corresponds very well with earlier phase of S to L SPP speed work as I was watching the inside the SPP video.

Short starts every day at varying volume, EFEs and FEFs done as an earlier version of 60m speeds, and finish drills for top speed training, with middle day being like SE day with 240s done in splits of 60.

I am thinking that I would have to start with something like the week 7 GPP, cut total volume of SE runs, but make each run longer (like 60->80->100->120->150), drop volume of finish drills slightly if speed improves (hopefully…??) compensate for the drop in SE and finish drill volume with increase in volume of short starts and accelerations up to 30m, and keep Monday 60s the same until taper is needed.

Basically, Monday is acceleration based, Wednesday is speed endurance based, and Friday is top speed based.

I’d have to do some math to keep the numbers reasonable, although haven’t done so yet.

Of course, it is possible to combine the two speed days, cut volume so it’s one day worth of work, and have 2 high intensity schedule if needed.

Please correct me if I’m off with my understanding.

15

Yes - the two added together would be a disaster without dropping the volume.
A popular schedule is to work out using a 10day week, not a 7 day week.
So, you still get 3 Hard in, it’s just over 10 days, not 7.

So, a 7 week block would be really 70 days (or 10 real weeks)

The secret to longevity and consistent improvement year after year, is not to chase everything in 1 year. If you try and be a world champ by next summer, you’ll probably fail.
Think long term - and progress when it Suits YOU, not a piece of paper.

You might be ready to leave Gpp after 7 weeks, or maybe 12?
This is where Science meets Art in training.

:slight_smile:

16

Ohh…I was talking about making a SPP cycle to do after 7 week GPP. I think I’ll probably make SPP about 10 weeks. I know Coach Francis said S to L SPP should be shorter (like 8 weeks I think) but I don’t think I’m advanced enough right now to worry about that. I am trying to kinda fly through GPP and finish in 7 weeks because I think would have hard time getting access to hills probably after about mid August (schools will start, and my work schedule will be more in the evening, so no around-noon hill workouts…).

10 day week schedule sound like a nice idea too if my work schedule allows me to do so (some days of the week I may only have barely enough time and energy to do just tempo).

My objective for these two cycles is to regain general fitness (haven’t ran anything over 30 yard regularly in like 4 years…) and to become proficient with start drills (good drive angle with hills, high start, push up start, etc) so that I have good basis ready and make it easier to learn block starts in the future.

I’m just trying to make a plan because if not, my intensity and volume will be all over the place with no order…

I appreciate your ideas.

17

I would imagine with your goals, a longer gpp is more beneficial. Gpp is more suited to achieving your current goal.
Hills can change to sleds or isorbic exerciser etc.

18

I’ve read about using sleds or isorobic to replace hills. I don’t have any access to isorobic; how would you set up sleds if you were to do it to simulate hills? Does it have to be certain percentage of body weight? or should it be like certain percentage slower than regular sprint speed? I know that achieving 45 degree acceleration angle and full hip hyperextension is essential. Would it be more stressful than hills? I just get shin splint easily unfortunately…

Thank you.

19

So…I haven’t incorporated extra rest days yet, but I’ve made volume progression for SPP for speed endurance.
For 10 week SPP…
Wk 1 3x4x60 (720)
Wk 2 4x4x60 (960)
Wk 3 3x5x60 (900)
Wk 4 3x3x80 (720)
Wk 5 3x3x80 (720)
Wk 6 2x4x80 (640)
Wk 7 2x2x120 (480)
Wk 8 3x120 (360)
Wk 9 2x120 (240)
Wk 10 1x180 (180)

Does this look like a reasonable progression? If so, I just need to cut volume of finish drills, as they’re very fatiguing, and increase volume of starts and speed change drills to keep weekly volume about same? Also, should intensity be kept at 40m acceleration and hold or should it progress to longer acceleration?

Hopefully I am getting understanding of program designing…I watched Inside the SPP video.

20

Hi kwave, there are quite a few posts about using sleds on the forum, but as a rule of thumb no slower than 10% of your unresisted 30m time is a good guide. I use car tyres rather than sleds, 3-4kg for women, 5-7kg for men, if done on grass you won’t need much weight. Regarding your shins, if your hill is not too steep and is a good grass surface you will hopefully be ok, just build up gradually. Don’t make the mistake I did by applying too much volume to the speed and 60m specific endurance sessions. Keep the volume at the most 50% of what is prescribed in the Short to Long programme that CF produced. Us mere mortals do not have access to regeneration techniques (daily massage etc) that CF’s elite athlete’s had.

21

Hello. Would you say for speed endurance, daily volume of highest volume day should be around maybe 500 instead of 960 and keep everything else under 500? I do see that with the numbers I suggested, the changes in number of volume tend to be a bit drastic, as I’m not very good at math.

Thank you for your reply.

22

Hi, yes I would say so, my athletes tend to do 2x4x60m, we did try 3 sets at one stage, but they were trashed afterwards and struggled 48 - 72 hours later so not worth the extra set. I have used 3x3x60m to introduce a bit more quality to the reps and that worked due to an extra set recovery. Speed sessions I tend to keep them between 360 and 500m depending upon the focus. My athletes are in the 11.0 -12.0 bracket at the moment (that’s the guys).

23

You should be able to handle similar SE volume esp if you make the adjustments to the intensity limits. EX: Week 1 - 2x30 standing+3x4x60 (10m). I prefer to keep the SE volume similar to the graphs and cut down the speed volume - SE work is not as stressful on the body.

24

Thank you for your inputs on volume adjustment.

25

So you’re saying the volume I originally suggested should be doable if intensity is low? (10m) means acclerate 10m and hold speed, right? When you say SE volume similar to the graph, are you referring to Inside the SPP example or GPP essentials?

Thank you.