NBA Player Bench

the Bulls lifted throughout the season.

I remember that Horace Grant used to do the power snatch and clean and jerk when he played for the bulls. MJ never trained with Al Vermeill, however. I think Jordan’s decison to train like a bodybuilder killed his reactive abilities. When he came back after retirement, he could barely dunk. It would have been interesting to see how Jordan and Pippen would have done under Vermeil.

It almost happened, and would have except for interferance from the (then) Dr and Physio, both of whom were later fired.

You also have to keep in mind RFD decreases with age

True Al Vermeil did the Bulls - and MJ worked with ‘The Breakfast Club’

There were some articles printed 2 years about MJ’s programs with Tim Grover.
I’ve not read very much new about TG’s training methods ( other than the book ‘Jump Attack’) - so I can’t really comment.

If I remember correctly Tim Grover worked with MJ from the season before the Bulls won their first title.
He warned him that the lifting would affect his shooting, but that with a little time and practice it would come back.

Thay guy was in his forties and sturggling with knee ops for the season - give him a break!!!
:slight_smile:

Regardless as to TG’s apparant flaws, his training didn’t seem to affect MJ negatively.

Training like a bodybuilder didn’t help matters. As an example, Jud Logan is a 44 year old Olympic hammer thrower and still has a 33" vertical at a bodyweight of 265. Average NBA vertical is 28"-34". Merlene Ottey is pretty explosive at the age of 44 as well. Don’t give me age as an excuse!
no23, please consider the fact that Jordan made a tactical error and chose the wrong training protocol??? Instead of high rep hypertrophy programs that added non functional muscle mass, he should have listened to Al Vermeil and did the snatch, squat and other power movements.

No I won’t give age alone as an excuse - I did mention the surgery he had also…
… and I’m not going to suggest that a team sport is more competitive than a T&F sport but there is a long draining season invloved also.

TrenchDawg - I’m not batting here for Tim Grover, nor against Al Vermeil…

I simply making the point that TG must have been doing something right in previous years as MJ was relatively successful.

As for the point that MJ did hypertrophy programs - well I’m not sure he did an excessive amount of hypertrophy work to any great extent… at any stage of his career, unless early on.

As for the suggestion that TG had MJ doing BBing exercises and no Squats or Oly lifts … well I can’t say - I don’t know.

  • I must add again that I haven’t any ‘real’ knowledge about either TG or AV’s training principles other than what I’ve read.

The program that Tim Grover has in his “Jump Attack” book which is the program he used with Jordan and Pippen is a series of complexes where he would start with an exercise such as the squat, power cleans, deadlift, lunge, or step-ups, etc. followed immediately with a plyometric exercise. The program is sound, and I saw a good deal of improvement in my vertical jump and explosiveness over the 12 weeks that I used it. Some of the flaws I felt the program had was the only direct hamstring work was leg curls, and also leg extensions were part of the program. The only specific hypertrophy work is for the upper body where Grover recommends a basic 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps for each muscle group a couple of times a week.
On a side note, I think one of the reasons Jordan struggled with his explosiveness when he came back the last time is that he basically did not pick up a ball or train for two years until he actually made the decision to come out of retirement. Someone may be able to get away with that when they are 27, but it is probably much more difficult at age 39-40.

Jordan was most athletic as a first or 2nd year player so Tim Glover shouldn’t be given much credit for developing his explosiveness…strength maybe but even then in the book “The Jordan Rules” it talks about MJ getting pissed off at Will Purdue because Will could bench a lot more weight then him.

I think Jordan’s decison to train like a bodybuilder killed his reactive abilities. When he came back after retirement, he could barely dunk.

Also consider the amount of weight he had to lose for his comeback and the training/dieting that went into that. High volume cardio/conditioning plus dieting will kill anybody’s reactive abilities and I’m pretty sure thats what he was doing.

Actually that’s a very good point - was it 20lbs he lost?
That has to screw up energy levels big time.

Gee Tim Grover ain’t gettin’ much love

Should we consider the fact that it might have been a better idea to change his body comp through other means such as GPP and diet? There may have been no need for cardio if tempo runs, 400’s, etc had been used.

Why would a BB player do temp 400s?

Or a better question, why would a basketball player do high volume cardio work?
I think you misunderstand my post. I said 400’s or tempo runs. I don’t think 400’s would be bad for a ball player. Do 3 reps within 75 seconds with 90 seconds rest. It would build a good anaerobic base.

I wouldn’t go above 200m (and then only occasionally) for tempo with Basketball players
3 x 400m = 1200m, Why not 10 x 100m?

I wouldn’t go above 200m (and then only occasionally) for tempo with Basketball players

I stand corrected. But, if Jordan was doing high volume cardio, I feel he made a tactical error.

I think Shaq is a little heavier than 325 pounds. C’mon.