Unless they are competitive half milers I am pretty sure no athlete will be able to run 4 x 800 in 2:30 with 45-90 secs rest.
That would mean they are at least 4:30 milers and sub 10:30 for the 3200 and keep in mind this is in race conditions.
If the goal is aerobic conditioning in an effort to support your speed work that session would be too brutal since they would not be able to finish it. And again they will not have to run at that pace for 2:30 secconds and we spoke about earlier.
If you state your reasoning and what you would be trying to accomplish in this type of session we will try our best to help you get on the right track.
just trying to increase cardio capacity without the proposed negative effects of SE training…
i think you miscalculated though… the example i used was a guy that can run 3200m in 12 minutes, so he breaks it up into four intervals so that he “runs” the 3200 m in a total of 10 minutes (not including rests) ie 4x2.5 mins (800m each) with 90 second rests…
It seems a button has been pushed, though I have enjoyed the reply…reading all the words, would not have led us down this most interesting path. I have had the pleasure to supervise and design off and pre-season training for some soccer players, some sessions included shuttles. The players did not play but once a week maybe 2x. I thought agility, start and stop/change direction would be beneficial. Brutal practices is an understatement. I agree that our youth and NCAA soccer players are overtrained. The new test, which seems to be the NCAA coaches test, is the 3 mile run, first day of practice, must be under 18 min. or the coach makes them run extra. This goes against everything we have discussed thus far. Except the need for aerobic excellence. I agree, this should not be the test. Now the players must run all July and Aug. to prepare for this test, it’s crazy!!!I believe 10-20-30m at most sprint work with proper recovery is best pre. and in-season. And, like I stated previously, looking forward to trying out NEW 
training/tempo/speed/ with the Spring teams when we return from the semester break.
I dont think I miscalculated?
4 x 2.5 mins each equaling 800 meters each rep with 90 seconds between each rep.
Not only do I think they would not be able to complete that workout but I think it may even cross the athletes lactate threshold? and produce lactic acid. Regardless I think that workout would be classified as too fast for the athlete to recover and too slow too develop any specific speed benifit. I understand the runs are not intened to improve speed but it almost seems like you’d be “robbing peter to pay paul”. I still think extensive tempo at 65-75% would be more benifical.
i also played soccer. can imagine your situation… if i look at your programm, i think you would rather be a sprinter then a soccer player. If you try to involve speed training to you soccer training, you will get problems, cause you arent doing ONE think for 100% + there is a great risk of injuries
Are you suggesting that it is a bad idea to involve speed training to soccer programs?
what if i make the intervals 3 mins instead of 2.5??
It would without a doubt be a better option (much more manageable at 6 minute mile pace) but personally I still would not have them run 800’s. Perhaps others can chime in an give there opinion and if they are against it as well state why.
I think the volume is good in the total workout but this would better be acomplished by shorter reps (under 300m) at slightly faster pace.
Read this statement again. And again. And again. Go home and ponder it. Allow it to sink in.
This one is overlooked way too often in soccer.
And since you didn’t want to wade through “10+ pages,” of the thread I directed you to, here’s probably the single most applicable post in the thread:
If you’re worried about maintaining speed through repeated bouts, an option would be to work Speed Endurance once you have speed base in place as Scarface mentions above. (replace one of you speed sessions with speed endurance as the season nears). Scarface recommended the above session with walk backs in between - this, however, would be a tough session, and you would have to be in great shape before attempting it (I would probably manipulate the distances or rest periods depending on the athlete). And . . . depending on what else is being carried on throughout the week (ie practice) even this may not be necessary.
Omyss - the interval sessions you are describing will make you great at running at a moderate pace for long periods of time - not what you want in soccer. See previous two posts.
True. This is a very important point.
Above are the energy requirements for the game.
Howver the vital action is never at 75% or 40% effort.
The key excahnges occur while sprinting.
ok so my interval session at 800 is not adequate…
so 300’s would be better?
the session before (ie 5x300 x2, at 50 sec pace) was to intense, so what about 5x300 x2 at a one minute pace, with 60-90 second rests?
svass, thanks for the input… so the 10x50 should be done in the latter part of the offseason once a very good conditioning base has been developed… so could you provide an example of what i could use to develope that base
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Swass, this ability is not SpeedEndrance, it is specific soccer endurance, or ability to fast recover between short bursts of activity (dribling, cutting, etc) and it strongly correlates with aerobic capacity - capilarization, cardiovasc system etc. This is why we do tempo, to improve this ability to recover between HI bursts. Also, I am not saying that this kind of training should not be done, but it should be done only when you have developed speed, thus in latter PREP period! First improve speed, and then ability to maintaining/repeat it with decreasing rest between reps and sets! Look at my thread about year round soccer preparation model, there is my point of view at this subject!
Thanks Ally,
It would be interesting to compare the main team field sports in terms of the above percentages - just for arguments sake.
Actually if you add up the numbers it’s 8% - less again - only 6% of time sprinting without ball and 2% with the ball.
Duxx, you have me a little confused, but I think we’re trying to make the same point.
The repeat 50’s or Omyss’ shuttles? If it is the repeat 50’s I would agree with you to a point. However, I wouldn’t call it “specific soccer endurance.” At no point in the repeat 50’s is a ball being used, tactics involved, or a game simulated. Therefore, it is not “soccer specific” and it IS a variation of speed endurance. Nothing is specific except the sport itself (or at least something that is simulating it very closely). However, it’s nothing but semantics. I will look at your thread to clarify your point.
I understand this concept, and may have even written a Masters paper on it 
:
http://www.powerdevelopmentinc.com/abstracts/hiie.html
. . . and it’s why I assign Tempo to my soccer athletes.
Just to clarify - this wasn’t my recommendation. It was Scarface’s. In a lot of cases I wouldn’t opt for the repeat 50’s or a variation thereof. But that’s a whole other discussion.
Is there an echo in here? . . .
To clarify - “as the season near” = “later in the PREP period”. Semantics, again.
.
And because I know your educational background, I’m going to get on you about this statement as it is not completely true… This correlation only occurs in lower qualified athletes with less developed aerobic capacity. Once a certain level of aerobic capacity (VO2 max~55-60 ml/kg/min) is reached, this correlation goes out the window, and aerobic capacity is no longer correlated with repeat performance in high intensity exercises (among a homogenous athlete group - ie. professional soccer athletes). But in general, yes you need a good aerobic base for performance in repeat-sprint sports.
Omyss, I was in exactly the same state-of-mind as you a while back. I thought tempo wouldn’t cover the endurance aspect for most sports. After a long period of debating this, I realized that it does wonders for endurance and is the most beneficial way to train. Leave out the middle intensity stuff.