Just finished weightlifting testing for spring with football at my university. Went over all the stats from previous years and came up with a typical strength improvement rate.
1st year - 15-25%
2nd year - 8-15%
3rd year - 5-10%
The lower numbers reflect individuals who are lazy or have other issues that affect their training (sickness, got their girlfriend pregnant, academic problems, etc.).
There is no excuse for not having strength improvements every year. This includes athletes who are strong coming in for their first year. We had a guy come in with a 400lb bench out of high school. He finished at our school with a 540lb bench. Of course, I made sure he did less overall volume than the beginners and intermediate lifters.
Just finished weightlifting testing for spring with football at my university. Went over all the stats from previous years and came up with a typical strength improvement rate.
1st year - 15-25%
2nd year - 8-15%
3rd year - 5-10%
The lower numbers reflect individuals who are lazy or have other issues that affect their training (sickness, got their girlfriend pregnant, academic problems, etc.).
There is no excuse for not having strength improvements every year. This includes athletes who are strong coming in for their first year. We had a guy come in with a 400lb bench out of high school. He finished at our school with a 540lb bench. Of course, I made sure he did less overall volume than the beginners and
The funny thing about it is that, not only does our S&C coach hang his hat on his lifting program, but there is a member of this site that i am friends with on the football team, who actually got weaker because the workload was way to high for him. So not only did this guy not improve everyone’s strength, but he also did not have them sprinting so no one increased their speed either. This guy makes 90k a year to hurt a program.
I look at certain indicators and gauge performance. Not that the bench press or squat or clean are direct indicators of football performance, but they do show a trend. My experience during college was that I went in benching about 365 lbs at 215 lbs. I got up to 235 lbs by senior year, but bench was over 475 lbs. Forty time was 4.57 going into college and held consistent around 4.6 even though I put on 20 lbs. Had I had any clue how to do real spped work, I think I may have been able to run low 4.5’s. This was 1990 that I graduated. Funny thing is, I remember our testing. Time in 2 mile run, bench, squat, etc. I sometimes think these S&C coaches get in their own way. Like the post above, losing .5 sec on a forty should get coach fired because he obviously sucks at what he does. I honestly think they just pound kids to show the coach their "perceived "value. Number 2, I love that trend. My high school kids get roughly 20% gain by year. They get to college and show about a 15% regression. It defies logic. One kid I had benched 285 lbs going into senior year of high school. He will be a junior in college and he benched 235 lbs over winter break. It was pathetic to see all that work go down the pisser.
Originally Posted by speedcoach
Funny thing is, I remember our testing. Time in 2 mile run, bench, squat,
Its kinda funny how the 2 mile test was used as gauge for speed improvements. Coaches just don’t understand that these lifting programs are only a means to create a stimulus to increase speed. Speed is the endgame. A friend of mine told me that lifting records were not even kept at Pitt because the ultimate goal is to get faster. Who cares if a kid puts 50 pounds on his bench and squat if he has not gained any speed.
I kinda agree with the quote about pitt. Granted I would like for that individual to get more weight on his bench and squat but my ultimate goal is to make sure the kid can move in all directions (linear and lateral) with the joint stability being very secure. Just like speedcoach said, the 3 of us (ESTI) are always exchanging info and griping about some moron at a particular university doing something to hurt our kids. So with that being said Im totally convinced that just because you have cscs behind your name doesnt mean jack! Dont get me wrong there’s alot of good 1’s out there but there some stupid 1’s out there.
Unfortunately, probably many more stupid ones than good ones. The egos over-ride the common-sense functions of the brain in too many of these individuals.
Originally Posted by Highlander
I kinda agree with the quote about pitt. Granted I would like for that individual to get more weight on his bench and squat but my ultimate goal is to make sure the kid can move in all directions (linear and lateral) with the joint stability being very secure. Just like speedcoach said, the 3 of us (ESTI) are always exchanging info and griping about some moron at a particular university doing something to hurt our kids. So with that being said Im totally convinced that just because you have cscs behind your name doesnt mean jack! Dont get me wrong there’s alot of good 1’s out there but there some stupid 1’s out there.
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I agree with u also, I think that people may try and get to “gimickey” with routines and and end may end up missing a lot of the important factors to improving an athletes speed. I have a college soccer player right now who about 4 months ago had horrible acceleration and also lower back issues. Just through a 7 week GPP we had him going from never being able to squat to squatting 225 x 8 with good form and his back issues went away. When we finally moved on to a basic sprint program, his results kinda just shot through the roof and attribute a lot of that to his added general strength. I think that the building up of strengths in a bench and squat based routine can go a long long way for almost all “beginning” sprinters.
It appears most create a “stew” and just keep adding ingredients and eventually they run out of room and it “overflows.” One of the best pieces of advice I received was take something out before adding something in. This helps me create a balance.
I just added a lot more plyo type work and cut back on the sprint work we were doing. Had I Kept everything, I would expect lots of problems.
Yes - I fall back on my Bruce Lee cup of water analogy many times. You must empty the cup before adding more water.
He also has a good one about being a sculptor and chipping away the unnecessary elements to find your masterpiece, not adding more clay.
My final piece of advice is the John Wooden quote. “The problem with new books is that we forget to read the old books.” I’ll be going through Speed Trap and CFTS again this month.
Well said by all the above. Simplicity rules. I believe Charlie said that being a good prep coach is part science and part art. The science speaks for itself. The art is what escapes most. It is knowing when to back off or push more. With my football players, I like them to hit big lifts due not just to performance, but the confidence it instills in them when they step on the field. There is far more to building athletes then just programming. Thanks to everybody on this forum for giving their thoughts and allowing me to grow through a collective experience.
I went up to physical therapy to visit my old therapists and atc’s and we started talking about training. (keep in mind there U of Mich grads and C mich univ grads). There exact words were I heard the new S&C coach at mich was very good. I just looked at them and asked them who told you that! They said U of mich fans. (Keep in mind they trust my opinion) So I proceded to tell them the truth (he’s a freakin moron!) They just looked at me like I just cursed the bible! I proceded to tell them that it wasnt just my opinion just look at how they played the last 2 years. Their smart people so they told me to go into detail when they get done with their patients. Wow stupidity likes to spread among its followers( im not calling the therapist stupid Im calling the followers stupid)
It is true that we do not post ‘record’ boards or place a premium on ‘weight room numbers’. Alternatively, Buddy and I and our players enjoy observing their physical preparation develop over time.
As far as the weight training is concerned, it has a higher value for the down linemen due to maximal strength being more closely linked to their positional biodynamic structure.
As for my skill players, while we certainly observe the value of improving weight room strength, particularly regarding those who necessitate it most relative to their stage of development, it yields to the premium I place on speed development, specifically regarding the energy required to practice sprinting and field based movement drills, and the developments associated with the positional work I emphasize close to camps.
It is enjoyable to modify the training at an individual basis according to the developments experienced by the players as individuals.
I have recently devised a plan for training camp and the season that will provide for up to 60 distinct training configurations in order that each of my guys may most effectively address their readiness on any given day. This is covered in a DVD I will be making available within the next few weeks.
It’s already recorded from a lecture I gave to a class of post graduate exercise physiology students at PITT just hours after our Pro Day.
My video guy is currently editing and producing it for me. It will be available through my website when it’s done. My ‘off-season’ DVD is available there as well if you weren’t already aware.
In regards to bad S&C coaches, I think James Smith explained the issue best; he said: “due to the large talent pool in America, it’s much easier to recruit the best then to actually take the time to develop whoever you get.”
So really, the situation is were the management of American sports itself does not bring out the best in American Coaches (or Athletes). Now if coaches had to hang onto their athletes for 10 years+, it’s possible that would encourage coaches to think more of the development of the sport then personal gain.
