In both cases, firmer and pre-workout, you had Jane lying on her back with much attention to the quad area. How much, if any work did you perform on the hamstrings?

In relation to the quad, what would be the ratio of time between that region and the hamstring? I realize though, much would depend on the looseness or ease of movement, using the hands, while stroking the muscles. However, in general, I’m curious of your experiences (given differences in conditioning with athletes) in this area.

An awesome study and much overdue.

Unfortunately, we had to edit a fair bit (we had a ton of tape!) and, certainly the hamstrings received at least as much attention as the quads. I noticed in reviewing the film that sometimes it looks like I’m going lightly into the muscles when I;m really in there pretty deep. Remember, I’m a big guy with strong hands from doing this so long. You may want to play the massage sections a few times to see whats happening by watching the movement of her muscles. Also in the section with Mike, you have to realize how deep he’s going cause she never complained, but, believe me, he’s in there like hell (check the time line!) and, after the second all-over session, she was sick from the removal of all the toxins from the muscles!

well, just watch her face when he’s massaging her shins… poor girl!

I had really stiff front shins the last couple of days -coming back to training after indoors- and i tried to do similar movements along the bone; not sure i was doing it right or not -difficult on your own- but it felt much better next day and like “separated” from the bone, or softer as a muscle

do you think i did it some good? if it helped it a bit, i would be surprised for my knewly developed “skills”…
didn’t make it worse though!
perhaps you are right, better start rubbing…

I’m sure it helped. just remember t move along and slightly away from the shin bone never on it!

since i’ve kept doing it and day-by-day it’s getting better, i’m convinced it has helped, yes…

about the technique, not easy to move on the bone (:)) and secondly, you specifically asked about it, right? and he did some good demo…

every little helps!

PS Chris, if you see this: it’s getting better, yes! but it’s very strange to me, since it happens almost always after indoors, spring time, or there about… :confused:
thanks anyway!

What cream or oil were you using with Jane?

It’s the Biotest Dual Purpose Massage lotion, which is available in Canada and the US. It’s expensive, but less greasy and gives a consistant glide, which is important when working and assessing muscle status.

Did you mean Biotone?

Yes! Fruedian slip- still thinking of T-Mag!

Biotone as a massage lotion called Polar it feels very similar to Bio-Freeze. I use it on my athletes after a hard sprint or weights work out on the major muscles involved. Usually not more than two (Quads&Hams,Chest&Back) since it is very cold. It seems to keep any tightness or soreness away.

What are your opinions?

I don’t like that kind of cream- it gives me the creeps to work with. I’d prefer to use massage and the cold separately- but if it works for you, I’d stay with it.

Biotone dual purpose cream isn’t available in my country. Could you recommend an other cream for pre and/or post workout/race massage? Thanks

If you are in France you can get it shipped from the UK. I got mine from .

You could order it from the US. Alot of people use almond oil or an equivalent because it’s so much cheaper and you need much less but it’s a mess to clean off sheets and equipment, skin etc.

ok thanks i’ve tried different ways i hope to get something soon :slight_smile:

I enjoyed a lot the DVD, for the quality of the video work itself and of course the content.

This is part of another post in the Recovery/Regneration section but I thought I’d share it here as well:

I recently started doing self pre-workout massage on my legs during my warm-ups and it’s probably been the most effective change I’ve made to my training. In retrospect, I’m kicking myself for not doing it earlier. It’s actually pretty easy to do if you have some lotion (which I keep in my gym bag), and I was amazed at how thoroughly I could work the tissue in only 15 min. I’m actually a little sore in some of the tight sections I went over, which gives me an idea of how much those areas needed to be loosened.

At the risk of tooting my own horn, my self massage is the most effective massage I’ve had next to Charlie’s because I know what the muscles should feel like. I was able to loosen my own leg muscles more effectively in 15 min than most massage therapists do in an hour. I highly recommend it, but definitely use lotion. Trying to do self massage without lotion is not very effective because the friction of the skin requires too much effort and doesn’t allow you to work the tissue effectively.

I think if you incorporate some self massage several days a week, it reduces the need to rely on someone else to produce long lasting benefits that will hold up under training, which is unlikely anyway. As with any treatment, the more often you get it, the more effective it is.

Interesting idea… if I could only teach my athletes this!

How do you work on your hamstrings? How do you perform efflurage back towards the heart without getting really tired (it is easier to push than pull)?

Most of the stroking is with the thumbs and palm heels. Quick fast strokes, not long hard ones. The idea is to peel the layers, not go deep. Remember we’re talking pre-workout. But you’d be amazed at how much you can loosen the muscles.

For the hamstrings specifically you just reach under with the fingers and go to town. Again, keep the motion light and quick. The biceps get a little tired from pulling back into the hamstrings, but I’m only talking about 2-3 min. per muscle group.

But you definitely need lotion, otherwise the stroking action is way too difficult and you’ll wear yourself out without making much of a dent. That was the missing ingredient in my previous attempts at self massage at the track. Then I suddenly got the bright idea of taking the lotion pump bottle that was going to waste under my sink and throwing it into my gym bag.

It’s just like Charlie says about massage in general, just start rubbing. It’s really not that complicated. Even if it doen’t seem like you’re making much of a difference in the tissue texture at first, just give it a week of daily self massage and you’ll notice a difference.

The reason why I brought up this point is because my training time with Charlie in April really drove home the importance of pre-workout massage, which I had never experienced before. The quality and effectiveness of your training is limited by your soft tissue status, and pre-workout massage probably has the greatest impact on that status compared to any other factor. And as mentioned in Speed Trap it’s a great diagnostic tool. If you can’t loosen things up in about 15 min., then the muscles just aren’t ready for high intensity work that day.

Most of the strokes are outward (pushing). Flushing the muscles is not the goal here, just getting the tone right. The effect is more on the muscle spindles and GTOs, not circulation.