Marshall Burt

Track & Field
1

I have read some posts at runtex forum from Marshall Burt. I would love to know more about this very interesting coach… Anyone have some info, articles, etc?

2

Interesting and scientifically detailed training approach,with a preference for distance oriented events.
A lot of good points to be discussed further,often misunderstood on the Forums he partecipated into,I guess for his Hegelian style of communication…

3

Thanks Pakewi!
Do you have anything recomended to read from Marshall? I know he don’t recommends “playing mind games” with rest pauses in iterval training (for medium-long distance runners)! What do you think about this?

4

I posted the same question on RunTex forum

5

I just do not know what he exactly means,but mind games are just mind games,time consuming inopportune sophistications of simple realities.
Rest is rest,work is work,fatigue is fatigue and the only useful link between the two categories…given these simple concepts anything else is just individual!

6

Here is one “interesting” discussion at RunTex forum, with Marshall Burt. It is interesting to see trough what does this guy (Marshall) must pass trough… and I… :slight_smile:
Reading this, you will soon realize, that CF.com is full of good and pleasant people… contrary to RunTex.
Enjoy :slight_smile:

7

[QUOTE=duxx
Reading this, you will soon realize, that CF.com is full of good and pleasant people... contrary to RunTex.

Duxx you are so right, I had the same type of abuse on the LetsRun board. I have found bad manners seem more common on distance running boards - which is embarassing to say since that is my background.

In distance running, the high volume (Lyddiard) approach versus the lower volume high intensity approach (Coe) is a never ending debate. For every elite (or non elite) high mileage guy there is a good high intensity runner. And nobody has ever figured out why.

Unfortunately some people feel the need to flame the opposite view point.

8

i love the Coe way. although not a fan of the long runs in any of the programs. i trained myself using most of the Coe methods. When i went to the AIS, they seemed to follow the high volume way. and my 800m time slowed 5sec from what i could do training myself. And my 8klm slowed 2or more minutes.
with my training, i could guess a 800m, 1500m or 5klm time trail to within seconds of the finishing time. Whereas with the AIS training system, i had no idea how fast anything was.
for me personally, the shorter intense Coe workouts were the bomb.

i think that the longer higher volume sessions would perhaps suit the persons who cannot handle the shorter harder sessions. Perhaps their CNS is weaker or such, perhaps is like a short to long v’s a long to short in sprinting?

9

What do you guys think about Marshal Burt’s ETG Programm and its principles (velocity based, concurennt, no “recovery runs”, etc) — aviable at both RunTex and www.powerrunning.com??

I can say that easy LSD (long slow distance) runs progressing in volume are GREAT for someone just starting to run, like fat ladies, smokers etc (run/walk programms etc). But, as soon as their fitness improves — SPEED is orientation #1— and weekly milleage is capped (limited) to quality runs!

Do you reffer to Martin and Coe book? My friend have it… I will try to find time to read it…

Here are links to ETG program outlined at powerrunning site (BTW — excellent site)
http://www.powerrunning.com/Training/Marshall%20Burts%20Velocity%20Focused%20Training%20Part%201.htm
http://www.powerrunning.com/Training/Marshall%20Burts%20Velocity%20Focused%20Training%20Part%202.htm
http://www.powerrunning.com/Training/Marshall%20Burts%20Velocity%20Focused%20Training%20Part%203.htm
http://www.powerrunning.com/Training/Marshall%20Burts%20Velocity%20Focused%20Training%20Part%204.htm
http://www.powerrunning.com/Training/Marshall%20Burts%20Velocity%20Focused%20Training%20Part%205.htm

10

geez wizz, they gave you a hidding over there. ouch.
it took me awhile to read it, seems i am now stupider for having gone to that web site! :eek: for having read all that dribble and carrying on, i now ban myself for going to a different running web site for the rest of the month.

11

yes, the martin and coe book, or manual. its a massive read.
one quote,
“as speed is the name of the game, never get too far away from it for any period of time”
some of his special workouts are fantactic for speed endurance. ie
100m at 1500m pace walk reminder of oval for 290m then 110 then walk around 280m then do a 120m ect till you do a 200m run at 400m race pace. all runs are timed so that they get slightly faster each run. so 100m is 1500m pace and 110m is slightly faster 120m is slightly faster again untill 400m race pace final 200m.
also, you notice, each effort in recovery becomes 10m less. so you get 290m recovery for 2nd effort, and only 200m recovery for last faster effort.
there are a few programs such like that. very demanding. teaches you to run faster and faster the more fatigued you get!! So the worse you feel, the faster you run. I have done these sessions with great success.

12

I don’t know anything re the Coe or Burt methods yet know a bit about Lydiard’s I have posted comments / summaries at the following.

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=10008&highlight=Lydiard

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=6571&highlight=Lydiard

Unfortunately many simply think of Lydiard as LSD training but the points I think of are

  1. The variety of methods used.

  2. How he wanted to run a marathon at X time which was Y per mile pace, he measured a mile on the road and ran that until he got the time he needed then he moved the distance out.

  3. Beer is good post run, his reasoning was that nothing quenches thirst like beer. Tea, water lemonade etc nothing compares. He said they used to go on there long runs starting at 11am and go during the heat of the day another way of toughening up.

13

Interesting - sounds like Frank Horwills multi pace method of training which he came up with 40 years ago. Peter Coe said more than 20 years ago that Seb used it extensively. Shows nothing is really new !

Burt does seem to link it to the physiological basis of the Tim Noakes theories. Whereas Horwill just figured it out empirically. His first idea was he decided to train for a 4 mile race by running 2 miles fast and 6 miles slow and it went from there.

Lyddiard is not just LSD - he includes periods of hill running and speed work but they come after an extended period of high mileage.

I got my best ever distance results (800m -10K) by using Horwill methods. However I disagree with no recovery runns if that is what Burt is saying. Sub max runs exist in every programme and philosphy I have seen. You kill yourself without low intensity days.

The thing about the Noakes theories is that they are not as measurable as the traditional aerobic/cardio theories. Traditional approaches are linked to VO2 max, lactic acid and so on. All are measurable. However a central governor (Noakes) has never been seen or measured as far as I know. Fiber recruitment is a tough one to measure. Whereas VO2 max is measurable and top guys (Coe, Lance Armstrong, cross country skiers) all have high values.

This does not disprove Noakes by the way.

14

The Marshall Burt’s Elite Training Gropup Training Package is now aviable for free download on this page
http://www.theetgtrackclub.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=packets

Marshal is very “contraversal” coach, that base his workouts on concurent periodization and velocity oriented planning. Worth taking a look! Enjoy

15

Anyone read something from Marshall ETG package?
I collected everything into one PDF… it has 500pages!!!
I will read it… but now I am reading something else…
I am interested into opinions of someone that have read it…

16

You are now learning what I learned from years of dealing with a mix of athletes on teams. There seems to be no one in track more stubborn and judgemental than a mediocre/poor distance runner and no one smarter than a world class distance runner.