Flo Jo ran a 48 sec relay split- after all her rounds and finals in the 100, 200, 4x100, and 4x400! Her training times certainly showed that, in a prepared, single case situation, she could have run in the 46s! Of this I have no doubt!
I don’t know enough about Gwen Torrence’s special endurance abilities beyond 200m to speculate.
Marita Koch’s split at 300m, on the way to a 400 with a strong finish, would indicate that her 300m potential could be no worse than 33.5 sec. Indoor 300m times are really no indication because they are seldom run- especially by the top athletes- and are usually run on inferior tracks.
Charlie Koch’s strong finish in the 400m leads me to believe that the stats on her 300m split are not correct. That being 34.1 hand time. Any thoughts. It seems mighty fast to hit the 300m at and only run 47mid. Just my thoughts though. Just an example I can think of. A friend on my track team ran 34.8 his best in the 300m ever, but ran 47 open in the 400m dash.
I was there. The 34.1 was correct. The finish looks stronger perhaps because of her position relative to the other women in the race.
if you look closely at the video, you can see Charlie sitting in the stands…
Where’s Charlie. 
o shi*!
your right if you look around 3 o’clock you will see a guy with his shirt off and a canadian flag painted across his chest and face.
O wait! thas not him nevermind.
By the way guys i cant view the video:(
Originally posted by fjlee
if the rule “doubled best 200m time plus 3.5” applies to women, then we’ll need a 200m time of 22.05 to get to 47.60!
I think it should be 2x200m plus 4.5. 3.5 always ends up producing a crazy time thats usually doesn’t make sense for the athlete.
Using Torri as an example.
22.28 x 2 = 44.56
44.56 + 4.5 = 49.06 as ooposed to 48.06
Using a guy.
19.68 x 2 = 39.36
39.36 + 4.5 = 43.86 instead of 42.86
Going backwards for 47.60
47.60 - 4.5 = 43.1
43.1 / 2 + 21.55
Good points all. What type of work would it take for someone such as Felix to get there say 2008!
Originally posted by Treble
[b]I think it should be 2x200m plus 4.5. 3.5 always ends up producing a crazy time thats usually doesn’t make sense for the athlete.Using Torri as an example.
22.28 x 2 = 44.56
44.56 + 4.5 = 49.06 as ooposed to 48.06
Using a guy.
19.68 x 2 = 39.36
39.36 + 4.5 = 43.86 instead of 42.86
Going backwards for 47.60
47.60 - 4.5 = 43.1
43.1 / 2 + 21.55 [/b]
So all that says that Flojo could go about 46 and Mariaon can go 47 if all that is true and accurate.
Maybe. But I don’t think so.
(Flo Jo)21.34 x 2 = 42.68
42.68 + 4.5 = 47.18 or 42.68 + 3.5 = 46.18
And
(Marion)21.62 x 2 = 43.24
43.24 + 4.5 = 47.74 or 43.24 + 3.5 = 46.74
Which one of those time looks more reasonable for the two ladies? Adding 4.5 or adding 3.5? The fact that neither one of them are natural 400m runners would add another .1 or two. Same goes for the men. Fredericks 200m time says he was capable of 43.86. But I think, at best he would run in the 44.0 area. 43.9 if he’s chasin MJ. lol
The concept of 2x200+3.5 sec came from averages among top athletes years ago. It generally holds up pretty well with men, though it’s based on the assumption that training beyond 400m is done, which is often NOT the case for top women. I feel sure the theory would have held up for Michael if he hadn’t been injured in Atlanta in 1996.
Flojo started off as a 200 400 runner but changed her training and just happened to be good in all three after that.
Charlie, I could see 42.8 from MJ. I assume that the people are training for the 400m also. If it’s a 100/200 athlete, than i’m just estimating the race of their life.
That time for MJ comes from estimations and the assumtion that he was only in 19.5 “shape” when he broke the 400m record. I also think he could have lowered the 200m record too, but not by much. Maybe 19.2 or high 19.1(well maybe that is a lot) If you use 19.32 and use the 4.5 you’ll get 43.14. Using 3.5 you’ll get 42.14. But again lets assume that he could have gone faster in the 200m. Lets use the formula again.
Going backwards using 42.84
42.84 - 4.5 = 38.34
38.34 / 2 = 19.17
Wayne, my bad I didn’t know that about Flo Jo.
remember that these “norms” are for top level performers. so bigger differentials may be need for developmental or less talented athletes.
re - Felix – for 2008… she should go al Torrence and Privalova and keep running the 100 and 200 and mix in the occasional 400m. I think the HS 400m record would’ve been gone had she run it 2-3 times this year.
Originally posted by ktolbert
re - Felix – for 2008… she should go al Torrence and Privalova and keep running the 100 and 200 and mix in the occasional 400m. I think the HS 400m record would’ve been gone had she run it 2-3 times this year.
I wouldn’t call her a 100 200 runner but a 200 400 runner like Sanya Richards. Why you ask. Because she doesn’t have a good start like the top sprinters do. She is known for her closing speed and that doesn’t help to much when running against someone like Kelli White or Marion Jones. Sanya is also usually behind in the drive faze but has a good transition speed towards mid race. But all that is just my opinion.
I don’t think you can limit Sanya Richards and call her a 200/400 athlete. I saw her run several 60m sprints this indoor season most of which she won. I think her p.r. is 7.28 also she runs the 100m in 11.28. And don’t forget she is still a teenager.
Originally posted by THEONE
I don’t think you can limit Sanya Richards and call her a 200/400 athlete. I saw her run several 60m sprints this indoor season most of which she won. I think her p.r. is 7.28 also she runs the 100m in 11.28. And don’t forget she is still a teenager.
I know Sanya is a great all around sprinter but I just used that as example because she concentrates on those races most. I know in the 100 Sanya could probably drop an 11.1x, and with more outdoor 200’s she could go 22.3-22.4 but just an example that’s all.
Originally posted by fjlee
[b]if the rule “doubled best 200m time plus 3.5” applies to women, then we’ll need a 200m time of 22.05 to get to 47.60!Just to give an example, at Rome yesterday, Torri Edwards ran a 22.28 and I think that’s the world leading mark. [/b]
From stats about estimated 200m level at the time fastest ever 400m runners ran their 400m PB, and from the intermediate times for those PBs, i’ve been able to find out that that “doubled best 200m time plus 3.5” rule don’t applies to women. It also varies with the level of performance. Those stats aren’t model, but data from the elite runners.
400m perf = 1st 200m + 2nd 200m (estimated 200m best the day of the race)
48.0 = 23.0 + 25.0 (22.0) -> double best 200 + 4.0
49.0 = 23.6 + 25.4 (22.4) -> " " + 4.2
50.0 = 23.9 + 26.1 (22.8) -> " " + 4.4
Running under 48sec required to be able to run 200m in u22sec, but running u22sec won’t makes you a u48sec runner!
I agree that on of the main reason that running under 49sec seems almost impossible by contemporaries female runners is because they race too much on the circuit. Koch and Pérec ran around 4x400m a year in competition, with some 100m and 200m races, Kratochvílová and Bryzgina raced a little more but it included some “slow” races, especially for Bryzgina in the 51sec range, but was prepared to run fast for 1 or 2 races in a year.
Hardly compatible with Grand Prix schedule!
Also, i don’t understand why Guevara ran 49.34 in May (what’s the point of running close to her PB so near in the year and don’t improve in her next races?), and never tries 200m like the 4 others did.
Originally posted by Timothy Lane
Charlie Koch’s strong finish in the 400m leads me to believe that the stats on her 300m split are not correct. That being 34.1 hand time. Any thoughts. It seems mighty fast to hit the 300m at and only run 47mid. Just my thoughts though. Just an example I can think of. A friend on my track team ran 34.8 his best in the 300m ever, but ran 47 open in the 400m dash.
The 34.1 split time is correct.
Wolfgang Meier took splits with his stop watch in the stadium:
10.9, 22.4, 34.1 (10.9 + 11.5 + 11.7 + 13.5)
“Official” splits are:
11.4, 22.5, 34.1 (11.4 + 11.1 + 11.6 + 13.5)
Video evidence shows that she was slower in the first bend, anyway, it was incredibly fast for a first 100m! So those split times are closer to reality:
11.7, 22.5, 34.1 (11.7 + 10.8 + 11.6 + 13.5)
10.8 for the second 100m seems incredible, but don’t forget that the wind was strong in the opposite straight (watch the video and the flags), and a flying 10.8 was no problem for Koch as she ran a 21.56 trial at 200m!
Note that Bryzgina (Vladykina) was faster in the last 100m: 13.3.
Koch has never been good in that last straight, she has always been the fastest ever in the first 300m, so…