So essentially, you’re saying they don’t do any of the flying sprints, ins and outs, 60m sprints, etc etc with full recovery? ever?
How do their athletes really improve their top speed then?
I can’t speak to the totality of programs; regarding the majority that do not conduct speed work- there are many players who actually become slower.
Exceptions are players who also run track or who are fortunate enough to possess enough favorable genetic material to experience some improved speed as a result of, if nothing else, biological maturation.
I know someone who was on the coaching staff of a team that won the national championship in recent years and he said most players deteriorated in their physical preparation with each year due to the erroneous, heavily lactic, and overvolumized training program
Fortunate for those high level programs is that they’re deep enough with talent to overcome such coaching errors.
how much faster (improving top speed and acceleration) could one expect to get without any weightlifting? To me this would mean: how much faster can one get without the use of a weightroom to strengthen the legs?
Just focusing on track work with sprints of different (short) distances. You could improve endurance and technique, but would your acceleration or top speed improve? What can be done to increase top speed without the use of weights.
Lets say the athlete is a football player, so specific technique is not essential (ie: block starts etc.)
Is it possible to get faster without squatting, deadlift, core lifts, --any strength training–
Like i said, im not talking endurance, im not talking 100m dash time. Im talking pure raw speed increases. Technique aside.
You would run sprints or the like about 5 days per week. And thats it. Thoughts?
Oh ok got it.
At the University I workout at I have never seen one rep of what we would all call speed work. Of course I haven’t seen all of their running workouts but at least 3x per week for most of the year I see them training. They do the sprint the width of the field as position group thing and then back again after the other groups go. That would be tempo type training really. They do some agility drills with decent rest that would qualify as true high CNS work.
Don’t look at what Shaver does, I spent a couple days talking with him and that’s his weight room philosophy (light weight and bar speed). If you go down to Texas Am Vince will push the weights a lot more then Shaver. So, who’s right and who’s wrong? There’s no right or wrong.
The program I am talking about does true accel work and they lift very very heavy weights with a lot of volume. They have Lb’s running 4.2’s-4.3’s… I don’t care what your studs are doing, I want to know what your 4th team player is doing.
Keep it real, I’m not impress with the LSU workouts. More impress with Vince Anderson system.
I see your point, but I don’t think that it is a fair comparison. Ben had shorter levers so in theory she should have an advantage from 0-60m.
Secondly, Ben and Carl trained under different coaches and although I don’t know all the particulars of SMTC, I’m pretty sure Carl’s coach did not focus on 30m sprints, resisted sprints ( isorbic exerciser) and EFE drills as much as the late Charlie Francis.
It took me a hard time to actually believe this until I saw it myself. I have said it before, in that I have trained with guys who had the following PRs:
Guy A: 9.9 100m
Guy B: 10.1 100m,
Guy C: 10.2, 20.5 <-HSI wanted this guy.
Guy D (ran for UCLA): 10.3
I have also trained with Angela Williams and other fast girls and NEVER saw them bench or squat crazy weight.
Anyhow, for the guys listed above I never saw them bench over 225 and I have never seen them squat over 315. All the guys are around 175-180, are from 5’11-6’2 and have long legs.
Here I will post a pic of ONE of them.
It’s the dude on the right with the white shorts. That’s my dawg…lol Yes he looks strong but it’s all hypertrophy.
Did they visit Michigan State? 
Let’s talk about guys who don’t have ideal sprinter stats, similar to James RB - guys who may be 5’5-5’8, 170-195. These types of sprinters must be weight room strong if they want to compete with athletes who are 5’11-6’2 160-185.
I don’t work with football any longer (only did that as a high school coach) but from what I’ve seen and heard, exactly as James says, very few football programs conduct what we would refer to as speed work. The work lacks full recovery so generally only the first rep could generally be considered as speed.
That’s good to know that they do speed work; however, I’ve seen more than my share of ‘experts’ with a stop watch so take all those linebackers running 4.2’s and 4.3’s with a grain of salt.
As far as the weights go, I’m proud to say that my guys only squat heavy if they feel like it (RE Charlie- they use whatever they have left in the glass of CNS reserves following alactic field work) and while most don’t push it too hard too often on the squat- the strength is there.
Regarding my 4th team guys, rest assured that they are optimally trained like the rest.
Stop in for a visit when you get a chance and see for yourself.
These times were taking from Jr day by nfl scouts…
I don’t think he made it into Michigan
Why wouldn’t you be impressed with both? If results don’t impress you than what does? 
Like I said I’ve seen my share of ‘experts’. In my experience at all of our pro days and this past combine I’ve observed that scouts, coaches, and the like tend to vary by as much as 2 tenths when timing the same runner.
You can only trust and compare yourself to yourself with a stopwatch and we can’t intelligently compare different players unless FAT timing is used; and let’s not hold our breath on that one.
Wow, no different then LSU football strength and conditioning program. A program that does tempo 110’s damn near every single day, guess that’s ok since they won a national championship??? The lsu track program get the best talent in the nation, when you are doing 2x10 for snatch I gotta take away points for that. :eek: As a coach you must progress with the time, leave the stone age shit alone.!!! :rolleyes: James can agree with the lsu football program.
As we all know, it only matters what the scouts stopwatch says. Most scouts at the combine only record what they have on there stopwatch…