If you were to question the coach concerning the value of completing this workout how do you think the coach would have reacted?
No one likes to have thier authority questioned, so I guess rather negatively. Especially since I am of lower social status than this coach who has been coaching for many years and in many respects is very competant.
And of couse the problem is that I can’t prove that the workout isn’t of value, it is only philosophy. On its own any workout is meaningless it is the combination of workouts over time that counts - as the body literally takes time to change.
This is why evaluation of somatic change (change due to enviromental stimulus within an organism’s lifetime as opposed to genetic change over many generations) is so difficult. The changes you see today are the accumulation of training over previous weeks or months (though obviously the last workout will have affected the organism’s homeostatic state for this workout). If sports science could solve this problem life would be a lot easier.
It has taken me many years to adopt the view held by the Wright Brothers (aviation) that ultimately everything i know to be true is untrue otherwise improvement is impossible. This philosophy helps me to accept other people’s criticisms and allow my views to evolve rather than shutting out new information. I try to encourage everyone who wishes to learn to consider adopting a similar set of beliefs.
what times do this coaches athletes run?
Reluctance to accept that sprinting is NOT all about natural talent and that it CAN be taught. The “cold” mentality where GB coaches believe that training methods ascribed by coaches like CF, Clyde Hart, Trevor Graham and any other well known and successful coach somehow can only be successful in warm weather. An inability to understand that a peak can be reached more than once in an annual plan. A reluctance to understand that speed is built without crippling fatigue. Reluctance to accept that 8x300m with 3 mins recovery is not the solution to speed training. There are many reasons. Many british coaches are probably unaware of athletic journals like Modern Athlete and Coach. Track Coach, NSA. They are not prepared to go the extra mile to do research. They have pr-concieved ideas like. Weights will slow you down. 150m and 300m overload is the key to fast sprinting. I am not puling any punches.
Agree, you have summed it up well 
:(. Perhaps, in a word, ignorance? Maybe not just that. And they’re probably not all that bad, probably just the vast majority.
I came across a sports science textbook (aimed at coaches, athletes and SS students) about training and nutrition in a library. In it they have a section on training for speed and power. Under that there is section on training for speed. There they mention the name of a current British track coach (who trains middle distance runners at a certain uni) who ‘has developed a broad framework on which a program of an athlete preparing for sprint events can be organised.’ Then they proceed to detail the three phases GPP/Precomp/Comp long to short program, with quite a lot of endurance running in GPP (‘easy runs’), lots of hills (both up and down), and short rests for all sprints (2-5 mins). I wonder how much of an influence he has exerted on the coaches here. I wonder when he outlined this program (doesn’t say).
It seems quite a good book. There are many quotes from athletes which is nice. I like the one from Zatopek - ‘Why should I practice running slow? I already know how to run slow. I must learn how to run fast.’
Flo-Jo used to run 6 x 160m in 16.1 with, I think, 240m walk recovery, according to CF in the forum review, it didnt do her any harm.
Doesn’t Stephen Francis, coach to the fastest man ever over 100m use this type of session?
Although the CF training philosophy has been used to make very fast athletes, other athletes have run very fast using very different training approaches eg MJ, Greene, Lewis, Flo-Jo, Perec, Christie.
As Charlie himself has said on this site “there is more than one way to skin a cat”!
Good ole Lxxxxxh Uni and George G.
Yes but thats one of Charlie’s (not Stephen) TEMPO sessions(circa 75%) NOT his main speed sessions (95%). Besides as far as I know CF uses that session to balance out the MAIN speed sessions. I hope you are not using it as a speed session…god forbid. I have nothing against 8x300m, its just not a MAIN speed session, alot of British coaches do things like that as their main speed sessions (8x300m expected @ 90-95% int) and hardly anything else. A typical British coach would look at Charlie’s spec end runs ie 2x200m (@95%) rec >20 mins and increase the number of runs to 6-8 and decrease the rec time then tell you thats a proper special endurance session.
Christie’s and Greene’s training have much in common with CF’s. Lewis is set in between The CF type methods and Clyde Hart’s training. The Italian school of sprinting has much in common with CF’s but borrows heavily from Soviet and GDR training methods. What I’m trying to say is the top coaches do very similar things and they should be approached and studied. In any other field of human endeavour the top performers are studied and their methods are taken on board. The GB coaches have not kept up with this and seem reluctant to take on board what is needed. Like I said watch out for coaches like M Afilaika and his athletes over the next 5-10 years he seems to be going about it the right way.
Linford was at his best when training with Malcolm Arnold, who uses a long to short track program, alternating weights with track workouts each day. I know that 8x300m is not a speed session!
All im saying is that the CF training philosophy is not the be-all and end-all of sprint training.
Who is he coaching at the moment out of interest?
I read an article in AW about athletes not being able to afford to train at the EIS, I think it was at the Sheffield site!
the problems of british sprinter seem to be the same of italian ones!
poor strength program, a plenty of repetitions in medium intensity (IMO, there are problems to estimate the intensity of the dashes!), ipervelocity training (yes!) and not a culture of regeneration after wo
You can see 19 years boy who ran 10"4 and spend the first 3 months of the preparation with aerobic work or (2 time juniores world champion! 200 m and long jump with big performances) a great talent who stopped his training for months for hams strain and after the come back (from injury) his trainer (his mother) proposed him 2 session of iper velocity, proximal to Worl Championship in Helsinky.
Morale?
2 weeks before with only one month of training he ran an easy 20"5…
In Helsinky he straggle for a 21"1…
I read an interview of a famous (in Italy) trainer, Antonio Cecconi, of some 400 m sprinter (who ran in 45"5-46"0) his raceswho explained his system of training…
First of all: simple periodization
Example of schedule
Monday
Velocity
4 x 5 x 60 m —> 6 x 60 m + 4 x 80 m + 3 x 100 m
- (yes, the told this one!!)
cross 5 km!!! or fartlek in 3 km
Tuesday
200s session
8 x 200 m, r.i. 2’30" (Nuti ran them in 29") ---------> 3 x 10 x 200 m, r. i. 2’30" (Nuti in 28" -----------> 2 x 10 x 200 m (Nuti in 26"5)
First sessions of the year seem extensive tempo run and then?
Wednesday
Aerobic work
2 x 1000 + 2 x 600 m + 2 x 500 m + 2 x 400 m ----------->3 x 600 m + 3 x 500 m + 3 x 400 m, r.i. 4’
His best athlets ran: 1000 m in 3’, 600 m in 1’38", 500 m in 1’19", 400 m in 58"
Thursday
Velocity
4 x 5 x 60 m —> 6 x 60 m + 4 x 80 m + 3 x 100 m
+
cross 5 km or fartlek
Friday
lactacid work
x — > 12 x (80 + 100 + 150 m) or 7 x (80 + 100 + 150 + 100 m), r.i. 30" for repetitions and 6’ for sets
Saturday
300s session
4 x 300 m --------> 10 x 300 m (from 43" to 39")
Sunday
Uphill
5 x 220 m + 7 x 100 m -----> 8 x 220 m + 10 x 100 m, 3’30" r.i.
- 4 x 100 m in track (i think they used them to “loose” muscles)
the following session was the sprint session…
Weight training
2 time in week
Absolut strength (his terminology)
6 x 6-8 1/2 squat
lunge strides
2 time in week
Analitic strength
calves, thigs and glutes for 4-5 x 12-15
For security purpose: belt and a bord under the heel when his athletes do squat…
I think there are no influences of CFTS in italian methodology (i think he know only he was BJ’ trainer) because (IMO!) they seem taken from sovetic schedule
If anybody reads Platonov’s books can read this scheme (for recovery purpose)
I day
speed
II day
Speed endurance
III day
aerobic
Weight training and ridicous upper body of our sprinter reflect these idead
I think the main feature of our sprinters (italians) in the last 20 years, is their inability to perform well when it counts.You can hardly see a PB or even SB at the main event of the year:You have it before, or, in case of an injuried athlete who continued his strength training longer, at the end…_;it is really sad.
Main themes of italian style sprint training are the huge volumes of speed endurance, the use of multi jumps and “specific” running exercises(or models):running with longer steps,and running with frequency.If there is interest in the topic I could start a dedicated topic on it…
He gave me some advice on front squats once, seemed like a nice chap.
I don’t know the prices for Sheffield but quite a few of the other high performance centres run at around £200-300 a year for membership. I don’t think this is unreasonable when you consider that most clubs charge something like £2.50 a session thats £7.50 a week for 3 session. Training 40+ weeks a year would make that well over £300.
I guess it depends how much you are prepared to invest in your training. Plus if you are good you will have TASS which will pay for it. Just consider how much most people spend on alcohol - it shouldn’t be a problem if you are really dedicated.
He loooves front squats. His strength training program has been in existance since the 1960s…
I agree, just work out how much people pay for gym membership in the UK or how much they spend on drinking. Good point.