But wouldn’t slow movements in the gym carry over to slow movement on the track?.
This is what I have found, particularly with the big lifts.
I’ve seen more HS guys go bigger & bigger in the gym (Bench/Squat/Dead/Oly’s) & get slower & slower on the track than guys who didn’t lift any barbell.
The fastest guys I’ve know where all core strength, basic bodyweight exercises & plyo’s all with great relative strength, & I’m talking guys who ran 4.3, 4.4 40’s (Electronically timed).
ironically in my hs, all the fastest sprinters (with a few exceptions of course) have been extremely strong weightlifters (kids squatting 400-500 lbs)… granted this may be because of the lack of a solid speed program
Are these guys also getting bigger and bigger though? If so, that could be the main detriment.
So no one should lift I guess?
It goes both ways, I’ve seen a lot of people who are extremely weak and are also very slow.
In the end neither example proves anything since it’s extremely important to know the whole program and how the different variables are interacting.
I think you’d be hard pressed to find people at the world class level who don’t engage in weight training in their schedules. We know there are exceptions such as Kim Collins but most, apparently, do.
The biggest problem with regards to weight training is possible the misapplication of the weights within the program-i.e. too many consecutive weeks of heavy loading without unload weeks and a lack of a maintenance or conversion phases. Then I completely believe the weights can be a negative however, conducted properly will provide a positive stimulus for improved performance.
Dwain Chambers mentioned that after his squat improoved from 180 to 230kg, he did not have any improovement in his 100m times.
I know that’s not what you were looking for, but I don’t think the squat is all that great.
It is merely a basic strength exercise to keep the body strong because weather / travell / time, don’t allways permit you to train on the track. I can’t rate the squat as being much more than that.
In my opinion: weight lifting only helps those areas where G-force is high. That is, the beginning of the race. (even then, block start practice, plyo’s, sled starts, would be more effective than weights, and a lot more fun.)
so you’d say weights dont help top speed at all? for some reason i thought plyos were more of a top speed exercise than a start…
Consider the position of the legs when running at top speed. When the foot is in contact with the ground, the leg is slightly ahead of the body and then travels back to slightly behind the body … before lifting in the air again.
Thus, while in contact with the ground, the leg is almost straight. Squatting takes place by bending the knees much much further than you would when running at top speed.
However, in the acceleration phase, the body leans foreward and depends on bent leg strength ie squat. So, this would tell me that squatting helps acceleration and even the start of the race… but little in regards to top speed.
you can think of it like that, but what about all those skinny guys who have rocket starts/super fast accelerations? and even improve on it without ever getting in the squat rack.
by skinny do you mean short? 
I have witnessed short/tiny guys with Great quickness and explosiveness. But no, I don’t recall seeing a tall skinny guy with an explosive start. Have you? I mean, Bolt is tall, but by no means is he a skinny (scrawny) guy
But I’ve seen the opposite as well. Were these guys who got bigger and bigger and stronger, also doing regular speed training? And was speed training the more dominant part of their program? or was the lifting more dominant?
And as you say, those guys had great relative strength, well… that’s kind of it too, naturally they were strong, thus the need to improve their squat numbers is not as great.
Oh that’s wierd… the second best youth aged sprinter in the world is a relatively skinny tall guy. He lives near me and runs 10.3, just turned 18. He has more explosive starts than many of your thicker guys + ran a 6.7 60m.
The key word is relatively. Skinny as compared to your typical sprinter of that level.
how fast are we talking?
Hmm. Interesting. Skinny is a very vague word however. Like I mentioned, Is Bolt skinny? Skinny and lean are different. Skinny is weak, whereas lean can still be very strong, but appear very thin.
ya but i meant skinny, by comparing that person to other sprinters who are on that level.
so he’s weak too?
not too fast (4.5-4.8 handtimed 40 yard dash). its just that some of these kids have little to no speed work in their workout programs and have gotten much faster (contributing their improvement to strength increases) whereas others have lifted no weights and done only running, but have dropped little to no time from fr to sr yr.
Ya I’ve seen this too with high schoolers in my school and other schools. Realistically, their lifting improvements will cause more acceleration improvements vs. top speed, and thus their 40 times will be able to drop.
I took my squat up a lot, as well as other lifts, and noticed my first 30 felt blazing fast. I’d done some running, nothing too much. However as soon as I got fully upright, I felt like i was in slow motion.
Now fast forward 2-3 months, where I’d done some good speed work, and squat numbers hadnt improved much, and my acceleration was the same, but top speed was much much faster ofc.
what about plyos? same deal?
could you elaborate a little, just out of curiosity, how was your “speed work” different in after the 2-3 months than it was before?
Im not sure. Plyos, imo, could help every aspect of the race. Plyos would include speed and explosive hops on 1 and 2 legs with or without a box.
Charlie’s Weights bundle goes over this type stuff regarding implementing weights and how to integrate so they support and don’t take away from the speed work. Helps put it in perspective. He gives examples of situations ranging from the Brit/Can issues of crappy weather and usually more weights requirement to the Ja situation, which is similar to the Southeastern US and Southern Cali, where the weather is warm enough to do speed outside and tempo on grass year around with less weights requirement.