It was relating to the isometric abdominal strength.
I think Vee hit the nail on the head.
Sprints
Sprint variations
Plyos
Medball throws
Weights
And for those looking for an additional stimulus Strength Endurance exercises.
That is the spectrum of the f-t curve. As Charlie has said, an increase on one part of the curve has effects everywhere on the curve. I interpret this as meaning that Stre End. will not necessarily improve you’re max strength, but it will affect the dynamics of the max strength training effect (say you can produce near maximal force for longer, this will intensify a lift without having to be stronger). In that respect, we train weights not for their ability to make us faster but to intensify the dynamics of training. It is a competition between adaptation resources to intensify or to adapt specifically. For some the intensification is necessary for others it only takes away from the specific adaptation.
lol you honestly think bolt does some hardcore ab work? and really heavy weighted abs?
The core/hip flexors are the powerhouse to limb speeds (IMO). Not glute, quad & ham strength (Squats etc).
The core’s primary job is stabilizing you
If your running sub 10’s, your qualified to say that.
The CFTS involves tons of high rep ab work, not heavy abs. From what I’ve read about Powell’s training, it’s been some of the basic ab stuff + some med ball ab work. Bolt’s training has had a quick mention of core work. John Smith did not use heavy abs (at least not primarily) in his program.
How many sub 10 guys do you know, that are doing tons of heavy ab work/hardcore core exercises? and… they have made improvements in their speed only due to that?
For the general, yeah squatting 400-500 will probably make them run faster. But from what I’ve witnessed this isn’t the case.
It’ll make the muscles involved in sprinting, stronger. Just over a long term, it will help in speed.
Just too conclude. I was doing weighted ab work for almost 2 years straight & I was in denial all along believing I was strong there.
how much did your time drop before and after? I’ve done heavy abs too, and saw no noticably more improvements than I did doing no abs lol. Same goes for squats basically.
but hey… if it works for you, keep doing it.
Getting stronger over a long period of time will make you faster.
As for the athlete A/B, the answer can all depend. Three things can happen (I’ve actually seen all 3 happen, and that’s just in my high school alone)
- the weaker athlete gets slower after improving their squat a lot
-the weaker athlete gets faster after improving their squat - the weaker athlete’s speed is unaffected by improving their squat
It can vary, and how much of which option ends up happening, varies as well.
I’ve talked to someone who swore by heavy ATG squats, and talked to someone who said he’ll never squat again as long as he does track.
As for your 3 months, stick to the running and plyos.
So if increasing strength helps a sprinter with horizontal propulsion down the track & where led to believe Bolt, Gay & Powell don’t supplement there training with big lifts, Where in there training is this horizontal propulsion being developed???.. Plyo’s? Genetics?. Greater core strength?.
No one says they don’t do some lifting, probably quite “heavy” in some peoples mind, but they aren’t doing a bunch of 1-3rm heavy lifts on a routine basis.
Where do they get that specific strength - 20x30-40m hills would do that I would think. At least that is what Powell has done and probably Bolt. Add sled pulls that Powell and Bolt do as well. I bet they get better specific strength from that than they ever would with weights.
If you want an excellent explanation of the what, why and how of different weight programs for different groups of athletes with different facilities / weather conditions etc, check out the Weights for Speed lectures, they are really fascinating and explain why the Jamaican lifting program is the way it is, among many other things.
I think people get too caught up in the absolutes of lifting. That is, it does not matter if athlete A can squat 300 and athlete B squats 500. What matters is what, if anything, that output represents for that specific athlete. If the weight performance, regardless of the actual number, creates a stimulus for gains in power production and most importantly improved performance than that’s the role of that max for that exercise.
We all know people who can’t necessarily put up big weights for their bodyweight or where WE THINK someone who can put out big performances in various athletic endeavors (sprints, jumps etc.) should be able to do. Whatever Bolt or Powell can lift for various exercises, if that lift represents an improvement over what they were previously capable and helps to improve or maintain strength/power levels then that’s the role of the inclusion of that particular lift and the weight program in general.
No matter where they are at right now with their weights, it likely represents a gain or at least a maintenance of output that permits the performances on the track in conjunction, obviously, with their track work.
The important point I feel is not whether or not the numbers are bigger than someone else. I think people are at times looking for the formula-just as Charlie pointed out-of which there is no formula that will fit everyone.
Just because a top athlete does not lift huge numbers does not mean that the weights don’t represent a means/tool for advancing their performances. Their maxes don’t have to be huge or bigger than that of their competitors to assist them in maintaining or improving high levels of performance.
When you refer to a gain in power production, What are you actually referring to?. Is it a gain/improvement in limb speeds (both sets)? regardless of what #'s you put up in the gym.
Power production as measured by various tests of of power output- force platforms, jumps tests, med ball throws etc. or most importantly in place of tests, just the max. performance as that is really the most important test.
I always thought that weights were used as an extra stimulus for the cns after the speed work and for strengthening the specific muscled without worrying about speed of movement as this is taken care of during the speed sessions.
But wouldn’t slow movements in the gym carry over to slow movement on the track?.
This is what I have found, particularly with the big lifts.
I’ve seen more HS guys go bigger & bigger in the gym (Bench/Squat/Dead/Oly’s) & get slower & slower on the track than guys who didn’t lift any barbell.
The fastest guys I’ve know where all core strength, basic bodyweight exercises & plyo’s all with great relative strength, & I’m talking guys who ran 4.3, 4.4 40’s (Electronically timed).
ironically in my hs, all the fastest sprinters (with a few exceptions of course) have been extremely strong weightlifters (kids squatting 400-500 lbs)… granted this may be because of the lack of a solid speed program
Are these guys also getting bigger and bigger though? If so, that could be the main detriment.
So no one should lift I guess?
It goes both ways, I’ve seen a lot of people who are extremely weak and are also very slow.
In the end neither example proves anything since it’s extremely important to know the whole program and how the different variables are interacting.
I think you’d be hard pressed to find people at the world class level who don’t engage in weight training in their schedules. We know there are exceptions such as Kim Collins but most, apparently, do.
The biggest problem with regards to weight training is possible the misapplication of the weights within the program-i.e. too many consecutive weeks of heavy loading without unload weeks and a lack of a maintenance or conversion phases. Then I completely believe the weights can be a negative however, conducted properly will provide a positive stimulus for improved performance.
Dwain Chambers mentioned that after his squat improoved from 180 to 230kg, he did not have any improovement in his 100m times.
I know that’s not what you were looking for, but I don’t think the squat is all that great.
It is merely a basic strength exercise to keep the body strong because weather / travell / time, don’t allways permit you to train on the track. I can’t rate the squat as being much more than that.
In my opinion: weight lifting only helps those areas where G-force is high. That is, the beginning of the race. (even then, block start practice, plyo’s, sled starts, would be more effective than weights, and a lot more fun.)
so you’d say weights dont help top speed at all? for some reason i thought plyos were more of a top speed exercise than a start…
Consider the position of the legs when running at top speed. When the foot is in contact with the ground, the leg is slightly ahead of the body and then travels back to slightly behind the body … before lifting in the air again.
Thus, while in contact with the ground, the leg is almost straight. Squatting takes place by bending the knees much much further than you would when running at top speed.
However, in the acceleration phase, the body leans foreward and depends on bent leg strength ie squat. So, this would tell me that squatting helps acceleration and even the start of the race… but little in regards to top speed.
you can think of it like that, but what about all those skinny guys who have rocket starts/super fast accelerations? and even improve on it without ever getting in the squat rack.
by skinny do you mean short? 
I have witnessed short/tiny guys with Great quickness and explosiveness. But no, I don’t recall seeing a tall skinny guy with an explosive start. Have you? I mean, Bolt is tall, but by no means is he a skinny (scrawny) guy