You’re comparing apples to oranges. Kettlebell snatches and cleans are done to improve conditioning not power.
Kettlebell= weight
Snatch= explosive movement
kettlebell snatches = conditioning?
Steven Fleck has gone through all of the cardiovascular responses to strength training and it is very minimal if any. The last thing I want an athlete to do is do kettlebell swings like some monk bowing to budha. I like some movements to get some general work in the connective strength are during the GPP and that is it. Sure you may get a sweat going but the watts from olympic lifts are higher and the barbell makes it stricter and in my opinion safer. I see no advantages for kettlebell work over dumbell or barbells. They add some spice to a program but that is it. Again the movements stated above is all.
So now kettlebells are tempo work? Are the good investments for training a team? Give me a few medballs and I will be fine.
As for Russians using the kettlebell, I know some throwers were using 8-10 kilo kettlebells for snatch throws since I saw photos of them training and was aware of the equipment. Only world class throwers can handle those weights safely. I use 8-12 pounds myself with powerball throws. As any football coach about turf managment and kettlebells…groundskeeper willie would be pissed!
YO dudes, they advertise Kettlebells a lot in conjunction with military training, I was just curious on everyone’s take on them in training these types of needs (ie:elite soldiers/special force)…they run a lot but also want strength…does anyone feel there is advantages to doing odd movements with KB’s or woould it be more functional to do strongman stuff in conjunction with running/ climbing ect…I do agree with Clemson in that KB’s offer a variety, a new challenge to keep training fun!!!
James, I apologize, but your first post seemed to be a bit of pedantry towards me, your knowledge is vast, but don’t rub it in.
Here’s my reasoning
1 arm clean & jerk/snatch-because you’re only using one arm you won’t be able to place a load on your hips near that of a barbell snatch.
2 kb lifts-From personal experience, these are extremely difficult and feel slow compared to 1 kb or barbell lifts. It feels like I am muscling the weight up,with my upper body.
For these reasons I feel that the barbell versions of C&J and snatch are superior at developing power. I did not mean to infer that you CAN’T develop power with them, I know you can only go by what I posted you’ll just have to trust I’m not an idiot.
Are you serious? I believe Dan John put it best when he said
"O lifting is an amazing sport for carryover. I once, on a stupid bet for a twelve pack of beer, raced a ten kilometer run without ANY (zip, zero, nada, nothing, any) running in the past year or two or three (or maybe five years), but I was getting ready for an O meet. Lots of people…lots…finished well behind me. In fact, this Nazi psycho running chick at the job I had at the time finished behind me, too. O lifting gives your VO2 intake a ride every workout and it carries over into other sports. "
IMO it’s not even debatable. OLifting, kettlebell training, strongman events can get you in great shape. Last time I checked all these require oxygen. Did I say kettlebelling is tempo work? Just because an activity is of relatively high-intensity does not mean it can’t improve anaerobic endurance, VO2 max, etc. As for your other questin I do recommend that you invest in an entire set (Maybe I’ll get a kick-back from DragonsDoor).
The idea that there wouldn’t be certain advantages and disadvantages to such different training apparatus’ is absurd. Speaking from experience the single kettlebell lifts once learned properly are far safer than barbell lifts. Especially, when used to develop power endurance. Do you know how monotonous/laborious it is to do more than a few reps with the barbell lifts. Also in
Arutunyan SM Distribution of Effort in Lifting Barbells of Various Weights
Theory & Practice of Physical Culture, 2:20-23, 1964
"It was found that with heavier weights there is a stronger and deeper stereotyped technique of movement, which does not appear with lighter weights. "
This is a big negative against using light weights for multiple reps with the barbell lifts.
Do you understand how kettlebells might be advantageous to barbells in certain situations. Your original equation didn’t add up to me, does the fact that the kettlebell is in fact a weight and the snatch is an explosive movement disqualify it from improving an athletes conditioning. There are always overlaps in the demands of a training modality, kettelbells or medicine balls for that matter can be used to develop a plethora of qualities.
First, I can double snatch 2 88lb kettlebells and several people that I know can as well. But, who cares about that.
I never said that kettlebells can take the place of barbells for explosive power in the singles range (1 rep) and I agree that kettlebells are not good for one-rep explosive sets. barbells are much safer for that. However, for explosive sets of 3-6 kettlebells are safer than barbells. With kettlebells you can swing the bells between your legs on each rep to stay in the groove. With barbells you have to reset on every rep which makes it hard to stay in the groove and easy to get injured. Thus, the reason why most athletes do not do more than 3 reps and usually sets of 1 on the OL lifts with barbells(especially the snatch).
My point is that heavy kettlebells can be used to develop explosive power, not just muscular endurance.
My friend and colleague SSgt Nate Morrison is the combatives course project manager for the USAF Pararescue(these guys are bad ass). He trains his team with kettlebells. Check out his website at http://www.militaryfitness.org
Mike, how would you compare kettle or dumbell snatches to barbell cleans and bar snatches in terms of effectiveness for sprinting speed? I felt the strength curve was longer and more pleasing in the kettle bell snatch than in barbell power cleans. Still, with the bar you can use a lot more weight. What are your thoughts on this and welcome to the forum.
Also, in a fairly well known kettlebell study an army or collage group was split in half, a 100m sprint, chin ups, standing long jump and a 1km run were tested. One group trained solely with kettlebells, the other group did the traditional army training, after “x” amount of weaks(6 ?), both groups were tested again. The kettle bell group one every test without having done any of the tests as training exercises.
My question is, what kettlebell exercises would have had most influance on the 100m sprint test? Snatches or maybe single leg lifts or pistol squats?
To the whole forum;
When it comes to power, is anybody really sure that higher force over short range (power clean), can develope more power than lower force over longer range (dumbell and kettlebell snatches)? Both have high acceleration quality.
It has been mentioned that it can take 0.4 seconds to reach peak output. Short range = plyo’s and olympic lifts. Nevertheless, it could also be a power challange to sustain power over longer range & time (dumbell/kettlebell snatch for exsample or even full oly squat jump.) Comments?
(Maybe I’ll get a kick-back from DragonsDoor).