Interview with Tudor Bompa

[lkh]

@Nikoluski

What contrast training is this, do you know? Is it simply a case of drills with and without resistance, since no over-speed work is involved?

This is the LSU training week that Tamfb linked well up in this thread:

http://www.trackshark.com/features/images/2008/LSU%20Sprints-Hurdles%20Weekly%20Workout.pdf

This was buried in the Trackshark article, so unless you read the whole thread carefully, you would miss it. The contrast training listed (remember, it was November) was 5X50 resisted, followed by 5X20 blocks, so no overspeed here, but it looks like they use the basic concept for the entire season.

Was the PB you got after the first OS session in a one off race? And then 3 weeks of normal training have followed?

I was doing this as the cutdown to racing as Charlie shows in the SPP download. Through the SPP, I went from ~1500m/wk HI at the beginning, declining down to 500m or in the last 2 weeks. I did 2 contrast workouts, and the second was VERY fast, so thinking about Charlie’s 10-day rule, I did 6 days of NOTHING, then had the PR. The race that followed by 8 days didn’t work out for another PR due to a couple of false starts (the first of these was me).

Any recent update on your racing? Thanks!

Since the second race following the PR didn’t work out, I’m doing what Charlie said about going back to training for a few weeks, so I’m really doing Phase III per CFTS right now. I’ve had three contrast workouts (all 2X40m uphill, 2X30 flying downhill, 1X90-100m flat) and each has been faster, with a 4th to come this week.

What I’ve noticed matches almost perfectly with the UK results mentioned above. You are NOT recovered in a true peak sense after 1 week. Also, it seems that starts are compromised–at least they feel compromised–which might be CNS/explosiveness effects of not being recovered, or it might be the effect of not doing much accel while doing the contrast workouts (and you have to cut the overall workload because the stress is so great).

Racing for Phase III doesn’t start for a couple of weeks and basically runs all summer.

[twhite03]

This has been a very enlightening and interesting thread. From the looks of it, the primary effect of the contrast training is on MaxV and as a result I wouldn’t think it would be nearly as beneficial for a football player or other team sport athlete. While it would increase the speed reserve, most FB players have limited to no exposure to MaxV in their training and would probably benefit more from flying 20’s or something similar. However the concept itself is intriguing and I’ve even seen some people substitute the overspeed section with bounding (I think tamfb mentioned this), perhaps for safety reasons.

I suppose you could modify the workout to focus on acceleration by simply shortening the distances and substituting overspeed downhill starts for the fly work. Thoughts?

[Nikoluski]

Thanks for the detailed reply!

@lkh

I was doing this as the cutdown to racing as Charlie shows in the SPP download. Through the SPP, I went from ~1500m/wk HI at the beginning, declining down to 500m or in the last 2 weeks. I did 2 contrast workouts, and the second was VERY fast, so thinking about Charlie’s 10-day rule, I did 6 days of NOTHING, then had the PR. The race that followed by 8 days didn’t work out for another PR due to a couple of false starts (the first of these was me).

So, were the first two contrast workouts During or After the two-week cutdown from Charlie’s SPP?

About the PB, I meant to ask if the first race was a meeting or a championship, but the mentioning of the 2nd race 8 days after is a valuable input, too!

@lkh

Since the second race following the PR didn’t work out, I’m doing what Charlie said about going back to training for a few weeks, so I’m really doing Phase III per CFTS right now. I’ve had three contrast workouts (all 2X40m uphill, 2X30 flying downhill, 1X90-100m flat) and each has been faster, with a 4th to come this week.

Just to clarify, some details of your current Phase III?

Also, since Charlie had suggested you go back to some training for 3-4 weeks, have the contrast workouts mentioned above come on a weekly basis?

@lkh

What I’ve noticed matches almost perfectly with the UK results mentioned above. You are NOT recovered in a true peak sense after 1 week. Also, it seems that starts are compromised–at least they feel compromised–which might be CNS/explosiveness effects of not being recovered, or it might be the effect of not doing much accel while doing the contrast workouts (and you have to cut the overall workload because the stress is so great).

Overall, it may be a preparedness issue, as mentioned by James a few posts back.

@lkh

Racing for Phase III doesn’t start for a couple of weeks and basically runs all summer.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes, please!

[star61]

@lkh

…The contrast training listed (remember, it was November) was 5X50 resisted, followed by 5X20 blocks, so no overspeed here, but it looks like they use the basic concept for the entire season…

Verkhoshansky gives the time to maximum potentiation for the second activity at ~5 minutes.

Sorry to have to repeat myself, but I don’t fully understand the implementation of this training. If the potentiation lasts only a few to 5 minutes, won’t only the first overspeed rep receive this benefit unless you alternate the resisted and unresisted/assisted reps, rep for rep? In other words, if you do 5x50 resisted, rest a few minutes and then start the 5x20 blocks, won’t only the first 5x20 benefit from potentiation effects?

As far as definition of terms, doesn’t contrast apply when the two activities are alternated rep for rep, and complex training apply when the two activities are conducted in succession during the same training session?

[UKcheetah]

@star61

As far as definition of terms, doesn’t contrast apply when the two activities are alternated rep for rep, and complex training apply when the two activities are conducted in succession during the same training session?

My understanding was the other way around. And so contrast is the right term.

@star61

Sorry to have to repeat myself, but I don’t fully understand the implementation of this training. If the potentiation lasts only a few to 5 minutes, won’t only the first overspeed rep receive this benefit unless you alternate the resisted and unresisted/assisted reps, rep for rep? In other words, if you do 5x50 resisted, rest a few minutes and then start the 5x20 blocks, won’t only the first 5x20 benefit from potentiation effects?

This is a good point. However, everytime I’ve used this method the 1st overspeed rep is way off the quality of the 2nd and 3rd. The potentiation ‘window’ may also be lengthened as the resistance exercise is repeated, then the 1st OS adds another huge CNS stimulus… probably potentiating the later reps even further.

[lkh]

@Nikoluski

Thanks for the detailed reply!

So, were the first two contrast workouts During or After the two-week cutdown from Charlie’s SPP?

They were the 2-week cutdown. See post #66 in this thread to avoid duplicating a long post here. At the time I thought the only way you could do this stuff within a CF SPP phase was right at the end because of the LSU training linked by Tamfb. But after doing it, I’ve learned that I can do the contrast training every week like this if I want:

Mon: contrast/overspeed
Wed weights (no squats or very light squats)
Fri 80+100+120

So, I may do it a little differently next season with more time. But that depends on whether every other week gives better results.

About the PB, I meant to ask if the first race was a meeting or a championship, but the mentioning of the 2nd race 8 days after is a valuable input, too!

Not championship races, but on fairly fast tracks.

Just to clarify, some details of your current Phase III?

This is what I have on my spreadsheet:

14-Jun 2X70(wu) + 100m race
16-Jun weights
17-Jun 3X20+80 submax
20-Jun 2X40uphill+2X30OS+100flat
22-Jun 3X20+80 submax
23-Jun weights
26-Jun 3X100 + 50
28-Jun weights
30-Jun 4X50 + 100
2-Jul weights
4-Jul 2X40uphill+2X30OS+100flat
6-Jul weights
7-Jul 3X20+50 submax
11-Jul Comp Starts

I would have had some more time off and some 2X200 early in the phase (III) as Charlie did with Ben (I also do these during GPP), but the timing didn’t work out.

I’m not planning much contrast/overspeed stuff during comp and not during the 10-day taper. From what I see above in this thread regarding more optimal peaking performance, I’m planning one contrast/overspeed 3 weeks out from the last race, leading into the next-to-last race, with the 10-day taper following.

I will adjust this based on what I learn here and what I actually see in workouts. I know that 3 contrast workouts spaced at least 1 week apart continue to improve performance, but have too much load to give a true peak performance. But I don’t know how long this works, and as soon as I don’t see a benefit, I will stop taking the risk and go to more standard training.

Also, since Charlie had suggested you go back to some training for 3-4 weeks, have the contrast workouts mentioned above come on a weekly basis?

Yes (see above), but I’m trying to find out if this is optimal. I know that the hardest workouts HSI does are 2X4X100 with 45 sec or 3X3X100 with 30 sec (and these are NOT tempo), and John Smith only does these during SPP every other week with some additional time off following. I get the impression that the same phasing with contrast/overspeed may work better than doing it every week. Just because I CAN do it every week, doesn’t mean more recovery won’t deliver more optimal results.

[lkh]

@UKcheetah

My understanding was the other way around. And so contrast is the right term.

This is a good point. However, everytime I’ve used this method the 1st overspeed rep is way off the quality of the 2nd and 3rd. The potentiation ‘window’ may also be lengthened as the resistance exercise is repeated, then the 1st OS adds another huge CNS stimulus… probably potentiating the later reps even further.

I tried the potentiation the way James mentioned well above in this thread, but I’ve gotten much better results with the overspeed portion using rest periods along the lines that Charlie gave (probably years ago) for flying sprints: 10-12 min.

Possibly the difference may be that Verkhoshansky in his “stimulus” approach is using sub-max weight loads. But if you run the resisted portion at ~100%, you may benefit from significantly longer rest periods. That’s the way it works for me, at least.

[UKcheetah]

@lkh

I tried the potentiation the way James mentioned well above in this thread, but I’ve gotten much better results with the overspeed portion using rest periods along the lines that Charlie gave (probably years ago) for flying sprints: 10-12 min.

Possibly the difference may be that Verkhoshansky in his “stimulus” approach is using sub-max weight loads. But if you run the resisted portion at ~100%, you may benefit from significantly longer rest periods. That’s the way it works for me, at least.

I think it may be a question of ability. In my dissertation I used a 4.5 minute rest from 3RM Squat to a flying-20 and found potentiation. But although I was using international jumpers and decathletes, there were no international sprinters…

I origianlly wanted to look at a possible potentiation effect of overspeed, but there seemed to be a real lack of literature.

Have you ever considered using some contrast in a competition warm-up? (Facilities allowing)

[a-j]

This yeah at the birmingam games dwain used a quick release belt before his races

[CLIMBON]

@lkh

I tried the potentiation the way James mentioned well above in this thread, but I’ve gotten much better results with the overspeed portion using rest periods along the lines that Charlie gave (probably years ago) for flying sprints: 10-12 min.

Possibly the difference may be that Verkhoshansky in his “stimulus” approach is using sub-max weight loads. But if you run the resisted portion at ~100%, you may benefit from significantly longer rest periods. That’s the way it works for me, at least.

Are the resisted and overspeed runs you are doing flying sprints?

[lkh]

@UKcheetah

I think it may be a question of ability. In my dissertation I used a 4.5 minute rest from 3RM Squat to a flying-20 and found potentiation. But although I was using international jumpers and decathletes, there were no international sprinters…

I origianlly wanted to look at a possible potentiation effect of overspeed, but there seemed to be a real lack of literature.

Have you ever considered using some contrast in a competition warm-up? (Facilities allowing)

The people who would have the data on the contrast version of overspeed would be Loren and Dennis Shaver. I don’t know if they respond to emails, but, obviously, Loren makes large numbers of presentations (for a fee).

You won’t see much on potentiation of overspeed for high level athletes, because most coaches are conveinced that it does not work or that the injury rate is too high. And for straight towed overspeed the literature is controversial at best (see the abstracts listed mid way through the thread), thus even if there was potentiation data it might well be wrong when applied in the method described in this thread.

I have tried the Verkhoshansky stimulation method (with sub-max weights) and found that it does not work for me for 100m. Seems to work well for shorter events with accel (so might be of some use indoors) but seems to fail when the sprint is long enough for SE to be taken into account.

I haven’t tried this as a warmup for racing, but it is worth considering. The UK pros were all over Southern California races this spring and I did see some warming up with light sleds, which I mentioned in one thread in April. I have had better results for downhill the flying times with 2X20m flat block starts preceeding the 2X40m uphill. I’m going to take longer delays (10-15 min) before each of the downhill flys the next time to see which is fastest.

Don’t know if the contrast method works any better once SE is taken into account, but it’s worth a try.

[lkh]

@CLIMBON

Are the resisted and overspeed runs you are doing flying sprints?

Loren gives the resisted sprints as 30m accels up a slight slope (see about midway through the pdf):

http://www.nwaswimaths.com/programs/VIDEOS2.pdf.

I use 40m accels from a crouch start. The overspeed (downhill) is 30m flying from a 50m leadin for me, but this depends on your fitness (and your willingness for risk at MaxV!). Everything I’ve read about this says that the uphill/downhill segments should be in the 20-40m range (flying leadin not included).

[ollie]

@Charlie_Francis

Depends on how you define power phase. When you think of it, the sprint work IS the power and it is enhanced when the load from max strenght is reduced in the maintenance phase, allowing sprint performance to rise while workload is reduced yet max strength is mostly maintained for a window of opportunity.
(Refer to the explosive power chart seen on the last Vanc seminar download)

What changes in the body take place that allow this enhancement to occur? Is it hormonal? Is it increasing the pool of energy available to devote to sprinting?

[UKcheetah]

“Resisted sprints: 3x30m (accel. 15-25m)”. So is this an uphill ‘flying 30?’ Seagrave is using? I’ve been using 40m accelerations…

[ntr]

What is the purpose of overspeed? Is it only to get the body used to a higher rate of turnover? The reason I’m asking this is because I run in normal running shoes on an indoor track when the weather is bad and my rate of turnover is significantly higher just because the shoes have much less grip than my spikes. I feel like my foot flys out from underneath me as soon as it touches the track, but this is just because the friction is less without spikes. Does running like this have any effect similar to overspeed since the turnover is improved even though I’m actually moving slower across the track?

[rainy.here]

@ntr

What is the purpose of overspeed? Is it only to get the body used to a higher rate of turnover? The reason I’m asking this is because I run in normal running shoes on an indoor track when the weather is bad and my rate of turnover is significantly higher just because the shoes have much less grip than my spikes. I feel like my foot flys out from underneath me as soon as it touches the track, but this is just because the friction is less without spikes. Does running like this have any effect similar to overspeed since the turnover is improved even though I’m actually moving slower across the track?

Something is seriously wrong here. Once you are near top speed, there’s no way your feet should be slipping on an indoor track. In running shoes, your turnover should be noticeably slower than with spikes. The added weight makes a significant difference. Perhaps your brain is fooled somehow?

[Pmoax19]

One of my mentors worked very closely wih Seagrave and there are elements of contrast work in his training, I will see if I can post some next week.

[ntr]

@rainy.here

Something is seriously wrong here. Once you are near top speed, there’s no way your feet should be slipping on an indoor track. In running shoes, your turnover should be noticeably slower than with spikes. The added weight makes a significant difference. Perhaps your brain is fooled somehow?

That’s weird. When I don’t wear spikes my feet just don’t catch the track the same way as they do when I’m wearing them. I thought it functioned the same way as trying to run on ice, where you might cycle your legs faster but not go anywhere because of the lack of grip. My running shoes are fairly worn and the bottoms are kind of smooth.

[Track_man]

@ntr

That’s weird. When I don’t wear spikes my feet just don’t catch the track the same way as they do when I’m wearing them. I thought it functioned the same way as trying to run on ice, where you might cycle your legs faster but not go anywhere because of the lack of grip. My running shoes are fairly worn and the bottoms are kind of smooth.

I think I know what you’re talking about, I’ve gotten this “effect” if you can call it, when wearing flats maybe one time when i did intensive tempo.
But I’ve got this effect also A LOTT when I had to (in the past) wear my spikes… with no spikes on them! Just the shoe itself in a indoor track because the spikes werent permitted.

I often felt insanely rapid turnover/super short ground contact, though strides felt short… lol…

[ntr]

@Track_man

I often felt insanely rapid turnover/super short ground contact, though strides felt short… lol…

Yes, my strides are short sometimes as well, so I try to focus on lifting my knees higher while keeping up my rate of turnover. Usually I can’t keep it up for long though because I start to tighten up.