I am not really sure what you mean. Keep in mind preseason before meets start we are lifting 3x per week. One of those days may have more of a dynamic/repetition focus or it may not. In season we lift 2x per week. The exercises are pretty much the same but may have different variations and I change them up alot.
However with the athletes I train we start with more basic progressions depending on what they have done in the past.
I agree. Different amounts of emphasis and as I said in the previous post different variations or progressions.
Xclr8 - thanks for your response. I’m not sure I believe the main focus of in season should be on developing top speed and quickness, but rather should be geared toward perfecting technique, skills, and plays. During the offseason, top speed, quickness, accelerating, agility, etc should be the focus in my opinion - keeping intensity high and rest intervals longer, pretty much like everybody here does. It is also very important, I believe, to be well conditioned and to develop toughness, mental and physical.
I can’t remember where I read it, but I believe I just read where James Smith also believed that this type of “toughness” conditioning (gassers, etc) was very important in football, and that the necessary conditioning and mental toughness could not be achieved with tempo runs alone. I’m not trying to put words in his mouth. Did anyone else catch this? What do you think about this theory?
Sorry about interrupting the main thread here.
Coachf, you read that on the first page of this thread 
Actually, I totally agree with you on this. I’m sorry if I gave a different impression. However the context that we were talking about was whether or not it is better to do gassers and other 75-90% work in addition to football practice or whether it would be better to do something in the <75%, >90% range.
During the offseason, top speed, quickness, accelerating, agility, etc should be the focus in my opinion - keeping intensity high and rest intervals longer, pretty much like everybody here does. It is also very important, I believe, to be well conditioned and to develop toughness, mental and physical.
Nothig to disagree with there!
I can’t remember where I read it, but I believe I just read where James Smith also believed that this type of “toughness” conditioning (gassers, etc) was very important in football, and that the necessary conditioning and mental toughness could not be achieved with tempo runs alone. I’m not trying to put words in his mouth. Did anyone else catch this? What do you think about this theory?
I find that it is easy to be “tough” (mentally and physically) when you know you are in top condition and have the skills, technique, quickness, speed, and strength to play with anyone out there. I think the best way to train to achieve this doesn’t include gassers (indeed, gassers work against most effectively developing these qualities.)
Another aspect to consider is the idea of opportunity cost. Gassers take both time during practice and CNS energy which effectively becomes recovery time over the week. This cost should be traded off versus the expected benefit. If we agree that gassers don’t build speed, agility or strength, then the only things they provide are LA tolerance (which isn’t required for football) and mental toughness (which I would argue is not built through workouts that make you puke, but through knowing you are th most prepared athlete on the field).
Perhaps a better choice would be to use the time and CNS energy you would have spent running gassers to work on a specific athletic quality (either technique, speed, quickness, agility, strength, conditioning / tempo, whatever.)
I’m a loser.
Mister C - What kinds of conditioning does your team do during the football season?
Thanks to both you and xlr8 for the posts!
I was referring specifically to the variations, yes. I am not saying that it’s something bad, or that I wouldn’t use them to a certain extent, but I was rather asking about your own experiences. Obviously they work for you!
Thanks!
Coachf, our team uses a combination of low and medium intensity stuff. I wouldnt say it’s optimal, but I think it’s better than what some of the other teams have to deal with. Also, our team usually is in better shape than the other team when we step onto the field. When we first report to two-a-days we have to run the 300yd shuttle (at a 25yd interval) in a certain amount of time. During two-a-days we do a lot of medium intensity stuff along with various circuits. Then during the season our conditioning is after practice, and it varies from 4 half-gassers to as many as 10 half-gassers. Most of the time they make sure we dont dog it by setting a target time to make it in (i.e. WR/DB in 17 seconds, etc.). However, they do include tempo and a continuous run in the conditioning as well. A typical weekly conditioning schedule, not including actual practice would look like this.
Monday - Striders (tempo basically)
Tuesday - Gassers
Wednesday - Gassers
Thursday - No Conditioning
Friday - Game
Saturday - 20 minute continuous run around the track
Sunday - Off
My ultimate goal is to be an all around athlete. In other words, I would like to be as fast/strong as possible and jump as high as possible. I don’t plan on competing seriously in any sport, this is all just for fun.
The volume of the weight and speed training would have an inverse relationship. I do not understand the reason why you would not like to combine WS and CFTS. Since both utilize conjugate periodization, it seems to make sense that you can make some minor adjustments to both to get great results. I am not using a typical westside template at this time, but I am using a lot of their principles as far as ME, DE, RE, working on weaknesses, etc.
I would caution against this.
JMO.
read Jack Reape’s piece
“you could’ve been a contender - at one thing”
on dragondoor.
He said that he is training for fun, or training for training’s sake. Also, since when is training for speed and strength incompatible?
Him: I have such and such a goal
You:I would CAUTION against said goal
MY question is-why?
Greetings, I’ve been busy over at EFS and working on things for my site and happened to catch this on some free time;
In regards to the above; my practical experience with the high school athlete has shown me that many young athletes lack the pyschological maturity to effectively realize their physical/tactical/technical improvements as superior preparedness and subsequent confidence builders.
I fully agree that the lactic zone work is a non-specific cost and one that does not fully benefit a football player; however, as I stated the lack of maturity renders a situation which facilitates the useful employment of specific energy system work especially in the absence of SPP practice.
I work with my football team five days a week over the summer and SPP has not started with the skill coaches until very recently. Accordingly, two months have gone by in which the only physical demands come from the methodics which I choose to integrate into the program.
Thus, in the absence of SPP practice I am effectively able to introduce the same energy system demands of SPP practice into the conditioning workouts.
Now that we are getting closer to competition season I am able to program SPP practice into the training and accordingly appropriate the volume of various intensive methodics to the perfection of qualities which are most critical to achieving sports mastery.
In regards to various energy system demands, I do not favor gassers or any of the others I mentioned in my response quoted on the first page of this thread. I do, however, favor drills which approximate the same degrees of effort, duration, and recovery as experienced during competitions for various position specific players.
I am currently working on programming for in season loosely based upon my CNS Factorization model and Roman’s recommendations for the distribution of loading.
As has been stated the frequency of CNS intensive demands during the in season is greatly increased. This comes as a result of daily SPP practice and Friday night games. Accordingly, CNS intensive demands are daily and any additional impact introduced via non-specific means must appropriately be accounted for and subsequently programmed within the observance of adequate recovery.
I will inform when I have completed my manuals if any of you are interested in my training models.
Lastly, to reiterate my position, I live by the PASM model. Accordingly, I must recognize that the psychological mastery is largely deficient at the high school level.
I ensure that my coaching strategies are globally encompassing the psychological/physiological/tactical/ and technical regimes. Thus, I choose to integrate various methodics which serve to facilitate mental toughness via physical means as the actuality exists as teenage boys who need to go through some degree of grueling physical conditioning in order to transcend their low psychological preparedness. The key, as stated, is to ensure that all intensive stressors are as appropriately programmed as possible so as to ensure adequate recovery.
I understand your point, but I do disagree to an extent. Currently, I am not in any sort of competition or sport. Therefore, right now I think it is worthwhile to focus on general athletic attributes like speed, vertical jump, strength, etc. as these attributes are required in most sports or forms of athletics. I am also going to follow conjugate periodization and emphasize one quality over the others at various stages.
Again, I agree that if being a “contender” were important at this time, I would be much better off focusing more precisely on what is required for whatever sport I wanted to contend and not just overall athleticism.