I just found out from an NFL scout, much to my surprise, that the official times listed/posted for the Indianapolis Scouting Combine are not recorded on an electronic timer.
The electronic timing mechanism is used and started manually; however, that is not the apparatus used for the official results. The electronic timer is only used as a form of ‘checks and balances’ of sorts that the officials can compare their times to.
The scouts at the 10yd, 20yd, and 40yd marks all hand time their respective splits; however, these are not the official times. The official results, at least for the 40yd, are hand timed, interestingly enough, from an NFL official up in the stands somewhere.
clock starts when the down hand moves.
Additionally, this brings new light to the debate as to any variance that we’ve seen between pro day times and Indianapolis times as, in truth, the mechanism for timing is exactly the same with the variance being who’s holding the stop watch and the running surface/conditions (indoor/outdoor). Regarding the individuals timing, they are all NFL scouts who are instructed to use the same methods of actual timing (ergo how to hold the watch, what to key at the start, what to key at the finish, etcetera).
Regarding pro days, at least those that are held at any of the larger schools, there are multiple watches at the 40yd with at least one timer at the 10yd and 20yd. As a result the 40yd splits posted are the average of the times recorded by the designated timers at the finish line.
So take this for what it’s worth regarding what our perceptions may have been for so many sub 4.4 times ran over the years at Indianapolis that we thought were manually started/ laser finish.
I wish the NFL would just accept that their timing method is bogus and just time the shit accurately even though it will show up as slower. They had to do it in track many years ago, they can do it for the NFL. Now we know why Timmy McTimmerson runs 4.41, 4.61, 4.61. If I were a top FB guy I wouldn’t sleep very well knowing my official NFL combine 40y time was decided totally by some dodo in the stands. What’s wrong with a touchpad start and FinishLynx finish? Too accurate?
A manual start and laser finish will usually yield a FASTER time than hand start hand stop because the reaction delay occurs on starting the clock but the finish is stopped instantly
Using the touch start is too accurate for most…What I mean by this is I attended a summer program that was conducted in the morning at 7am during a 7 week period we worked out 5 days a week through a sports medicine place where the trainers were PTs and ATs. They had all the latest gimicks used a vertec, and a touch pad laser finish 40 timer. Interestingly my times were slower after the 7 weeks of training and I realized this cookie cutter system where everyone was trained the same used speed ladders was not a good investment of my time. I was always interested in their system because they had accurate measurements and all kind of different traing gadgets. My friend who training there ran a 4.37 at the Penn State Nike Combine where LeSean McCoy ran a 4.2 something as a 190 pound high school sophmore these were all hand times. Later in the summer my friend ran around a 4.61 on the electric timer. At the time this same facility was using the vertec they used the 2 arms reach and allowed a 2 step approach the same kid jumped around a 40 in vertical which I later realized this is not a true vertical and the reach makes it subjective, but he did have ups!
I have not seen an official combine report from this year, but in years past, the electronic times (hand start/elec finish) are listed on the combine official master report, but you never heard those as the reported times.
The electronic times listed on the combine report are generally .05-.1 slower than the hand start/hand finish times listed on the combine report.
the problem with touch pad starts is that you may jerk the harnd or twitch and set off the timer before you actually go, giving you a hell of a shock when you get your time. Just go HT and the hell with touch pads IMO
What about the way bobsled athletes do it, timing gates within .5 to 1m of the start? I see nothing wrong with the manual start and laser finish, at least one end of the deal is idiot proof.
Yes, the pad start is very difficult and usually double beeps and you must reset. I always felt that the jerk or twitch before the actual start was screwing with my times, but they never let us do enough try to test this theory.
I had a prob with two athletes who were relying on input from touch pads- turned out the times they were getting were slower than the FAT times they were running in races because of the twitch factor on the pad.
FAT, the best at 30m is 3.79 and minus reaction time about 3.66 for reference- that’s the issue with touch pads- now way to compare- rather to use HT- prob why the teams use it- they know what they’re getting
well, i guess if your testing with it, every month or so. It will be accurate in determining if you are actually getting fasters and your training is working however…
couldnt you compare against people who have done the same thing?
I trained a kid that was a d2 All-American for football, and he ran the top time out of all the running backs at the combine.(Not the real combine, but the fake one, you pay like 200 bucks for). But still I was shocked to hear his result.
I had timed him at 4.5 seconds on astroturf indoors. Not bad considering he was running 4.8 (maybe slower) before. So I set up his training for the Maryland combine. I get a call from him telling me he has ran the fastest time in the combine out of all the running backs, a 4.5 electronic.
Keep in mind this wasn’t the big pro combine, but a qualifier for the pro one. So I call the combine (which was held at Towson University) and found out it was actually hand-timed.
yeah, wow…that is crazy. I just cant think hand time is better at all. I’ve ran 3.3 for 30m hand timed, and with someone else doing it 3.5 and so on. Everyone is slightly different. At least if the gates are set up the same every time the same, you can have good consistency.
I was at the Powel world record meet in Gateshead and i hand timed the race from the smoke of the gun and got it “perfectly” at the line and i got him at 9.2 seconds…haha…