Okay I’m trying to see right now if I truly need orthotics, or if I’m just using them as a crutch right now.
I can’t tell if I truly do over-pronate or not. I dunno if its cuz I just figured out how to loosen up my calves effectively for once, but when I walk(or even run…though its a bit harder to see)[evaluated barefoot btw], it doesn’t look like my foot rolls in excessively, though with orthotics its SLIGHTLY less rolling inwards.
Also, I leave NORMAL ARCHED wet foot prints(unless my foot is completely drenched and soaked…but I think that isnt how its supposed to be done).
However, I’ve been told I have flat feet, and orthotics are a must. Why do the wet foot prints and my own analysis show otherwise? (though my arches are collapsed to a good extent, but I CAN slide something as thick as the prongs of an average fork under my arch without it touching my foot until about the middle.
My never-ending quest to cure my shin splints continues!!! hahah try this one though, it confuses me so much!
I’m particularly interested in the above sentense, as i think it’s nonsense… The fastest people in my old team were flat footed and didn’t use orthotics. They never seemed to have any serious problems either.
Try walking on Hard Sand normally. Then check your prints.
Simply look at the bottom of a pair of joggers. The wear pattern will show you the places of higher impact and use. If there are spots not warn at all, if your warm through all the rubber now your into the cushioning, or simply grip is used up more in some areas then others. Your walking shoes Might be different than your Joggers? Check both, you May need orthotics in walking shoes only, and not joggers??
Try massage on your feet, i had to massage my feet at one stage for months - like bubble wrap they were, disgusting.
Heavy Calf raises in Joggers with limited supports strength your feet as well, particularly if done with Burns at the end of the set. Make your feet cry out they can. Pause the calf raises at the bottom of the movement too to make use of the Stretching effect too. They stretch the crap out of the calfs if you let em. Put pressure on one foot over the other alternating each time to put extra stretch into the calfs at the bottom movement.
Do weighted Toe raises for the tibialis anterior. Also stretch and massage it too. It affects the feet, is good for Dorsiflexion and helps prevent and cure lower legs injuries. Also try, swimming with flippers on, or just kicking in the pool with flippers on. That will show you muscles in the lower leg you never knew existed. Its fantastic.
Bromelain is a good natural antiinflammatory, its insane at its ability to prevent soreness after a killer workout. Calcium / magnesium tabs are a must too for recovery and muscle relaxation.
I imagine the pair of shoes would have to be pretty used to really make for an effective analysis? If I uploaded pics of the bottom of my shoes, would you be able to tell me what you think? because to me, the wearing out looks even.
Good advice too…never heard of the swimming or bromelain ideas though!
i walk on a treadmill for 10 min barefoot each day at a good pace as well
how to tell if you over pronate?
i went to the local running store, one that the employees KNOW what theyre talking about. she video taped me walking and jogging barefoot from just behind my heels a meter away. not only do a i pronate like crazy, but i also tend to buckle my knees inward a bit when jogging as a result of it. putting me in the right shoes and doing the right stretches and massage of calves worked for me so far.
im starting to introduce sprinting on grass hills and plyos…after 8 weeks of OL and squat training
Good thread…I can add something to this thread as I’m in a funny yet frustrating position with pronation and orthortics. I’ve had numerous strains and pulls in the hamstring area over the last 3 years…months of rehab and strength programmes…etc etc… I sat down with my physio one day and said “we need to sort this out once and for all…” We discussed biomechanics and gait analysis…upon walking me walk numerous times it was concluded that one of my problems was that I pronated on the right leg. This pronation coupled with poor pelvic stability in the right leg and a tendency to get very tight in the erector spinae was the cause of the pulls and strains and neural problems in the hamstring. I was given some orthortics to correct the pronantion.
Over the course of the weeks and months I was able to start sprinting again pain free. I noticed that my hamstring felt loose and the tightness that I was experiencing in the upper hamstring/glute attachment had gone. Had the orthortics helped or was it the strength program and pelvis stability/core work and rest that did it? Who knows…
Now to the present day…I’m competing pain and more or less niggle free…the times havent been great (this could be a combination of things) - but one thing that struck me was the use of orthortics in my spikes to stop the pronation. Do orthortics really hinder speed? Does pronation cause a loss in overall time in the 100/200? (excess movement of the feet,incorrect landings etc)
I ran a race without my orthortics and ran a seasons best in the 100 and equal pb in the 200…coincidence? But the price i’m paying - sore hamstring. (result of the body re-adjusting to the inserts not being there??) It was suggested that I run with an orthortic in just the right as this was the problem foot. Charlie/forum what are your views on having just one orthortic in the shoe? Would this cause problems (balance and biomechanically) or should I get my body used to running with out them…?
i would perhaps try i bit of trial here.
use the video footage of spikes only
use the video footage of spikes and both feet in orthotics
use the video footage of spike only left foot, spike and orthotics in right foot
From here, options come up.
Perhaps a Thin orthotics is needed still in the left and the normal thicker one in the right??
Perhaps non orthotics in left and a thin one in the right for the spikes?? Trail would be needed.
I would do this maybe only just for the spikes, and leave the normal ones in your normal shoes?
I also found, that wearing orthotics in normal everyday shoes was all i needed. I found like you did, that even though you were more pain free in the spikes, times were generally slower. I would imagine that like you say, your legs have gotton used to the new style, and running without them was one (lighter) and two, (slightly different mechanics).
The barefoot running is a good idea too. Try also these drills to use too. In your warm up, for 10m each.
Walk on your outside of the foot
walk on the inside of the foot
walk on your heels only
I and others have had good success with these drills.
walk on your toes only
As per the photo of the shoes, getting depth on the tread could be nearly impossable? Perhaps go to the shops and check the same shoes brand new. Im sure you could see somthing?
Great feed back bro…I actually do the barefoot walks everyday as part of my drills…what also works great is doing runs on the grass (tempo and pre race warm up)…
I think you’re on the right path with the orthortics in shoes comment…Would be interesting to know why times are slower.
I gotta say, I feel slower with orthotics too. I HATE that! When speed is everything to me, that’s a big deal! I also don’t feel more secure in my shoes…it feels like stability and agility is compromised somewhat. Anyone else feel the same?
I dunno if thats a mess waiting to happen though? I think that would cause my body to function a little differently, due to constant use of orthotics, so taking them off for running could possibly promote faultier mechanics without them?
Hah, the never-ending quest for understanding orthotics and overpronation! Overpronation is a subjective term unfortunately which definitely confuses things. While it is true that orthotics can help slow down the rate of pronation, most recent studies have shown to be statistically insignificant. That’s why I suggest that my patients don’t need to wear their orthotics in their spikes. Furthermore, if the orthotics do not control forefoot motion, then they will do nothing in the spikes (you don’t sprint from heel to toe). So the answer to the original question is: IT DEPENDS WHO YOU TALK TO. The more I see patients, the more I see other symptoms further up the body as the main cause of their pronation, i.e., tight TFL, weak abductors, etc. Just my two (or maybe) five cents.
You know that interests me, because I always wondered how orthotics would be helpful when you’re sprinting on your toes anyways…
I know I have somewhat tight hips, but not nearly as bad as they were pre-shin splints. (video analysis of my sprints shows better posture in the hips now)
So Krusty, how would you analyze a patients body and see what needs to be loosened up or strengthened? In other words, what are you looking for?
Well, I must admit I am not the best biomechanical observer, but I usually can observe when the individual is unable to bring their lower torso adequately towards the midline and when there is inadequate knee lift,shortening their stride length. These shows some weakness or tightness of the hip musculature. Or sometimes as compensation, leaning back when running is sometimes seen. These are probably more important than just looking at “overpronation”. A way to strengthen the abductors would include squats (the gluteal muscles also function as abductors) and my favourite, the “fire hydrant” which involves lifting up your leg like a dog relieving themselves on the fire hydrant. Hope I helped in some way!
Funny that you mention that, because that’s pretty much how I “used” to run.
Check out this pic of how I ran at top speed several months before I developed shin splints. (it goes from right to left). Not only that, but it looks like I had tight hamstrings too??? My stride didn’t look long at all
i think u have it backwards…every article i’ve read says u need to strengthen the ADDUCTORS, hamstrings, and glutes… and stretch the quads, back, and hip areas.
going to t-nation.com and searching for “pronation” reallllly helped a lot.
reAD anything by Eric Cressey, wow this guy knows his stuff!
