Here is a question that is troubling me

And who will maintain everyone’s Facebook and MySpace accounts…??? This can keep people up at nights if they think too much about it. :wink:

i dont see why the idea must be that, life and humans are a neccesity to the universe.
going further, existence is not a neccesity for anything, nothing NEEDS to exist, it can stop existing and nothing will happen in the end.

So u say that it’s man governs it all, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet in particular? Pardon me but in order to govern, one needs, after all, to have a precise plan for certain, at least somewhat decent, length of time. Allow me to ask you, then, how man can govern, if he is not only deprived of the opportunity of making a plan for at least some ridiculously short period - well, say, a thousand years - but cannot even vouch for his own tomorrow? And in fact imagine that you, for instance, start governing, giving orders to others and yourself, generally, so to speak, acquire a taste for it, and suddenly you get lung cancer and so your governing is over!
You are no longer interested in anyone’s fate but your own. Your
family starts lying to you. Feeling that something is wrong, you rush to
learned doctors, then to quacks, and sometimes to fortune-tellers as well.
Like the first, so the second and third are completely senseless, as you
understand. And it all ends tragically: a man who still recently thought he
was governing something, suddenly winds up lying motionless in a wooden box,
and the people around him, seeing that the man lying there is no longer good
for anything, burn him in an oven. Sometimes it’s worse still: the man has just decided to go to the Olympics games in 2012 a trifling matter, it seems, but even this he cannot accomplish, because suddenly, no one knows why, he slips and falls under a tram-car! Are you going to say it was he who governed himself that way? Would it not be more correct to think that he was governed by someone else entirely? You may probably counter me like this - yes, man is mortal, no one disputes that. But the thing is…’ Yes my friend, man is mortal, but that would be only half the trouble. The worst of it is that he’s sometimes unexpectedly mortal - there’s the trick! And generally he’s unable to say what he’s going to do this same evening.’
You’re probably thinking What an absurd way of putting the question there’s some exaggeration here. About this same evening you do
know more or less certainly. It goes without saying, if a brick should fall
on your head. No brick will ever fall on anyone’s head just out of the blue. In this particular case, I assure you, you are not in danger of that at all. You will die a different death.

PS I’m not christian nor muslim nor whatever…

it needs to be accepted that humans are simply smart animals, and will one day die, and that’s it for them. Just like it was for the other animals that have died over time.

Swimming pool man
Barack Obama is a smart animal, excellent!!! Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish. Bill gates, some bum on the street etc

Nothing like a good christmas time philosophical debate!:smiley:

Bumer, what you are describing in the above scenarios where unexpected things happen isn’t an issue of who is in control but rather is an example of randomness. Many events happen without anybody being in control or for any purpose.

People tend to assume that if an event occurs then there has to be something or someone causing it. This is because people do things with the intent of acheiving goals and tend to assume that the rest of the universe works this way as well. This ability to see random events as a larger pattern is an important part of human intelligence, but it’s not always correct.

Randomness, the chaos theory. “The chaos is in the heads” - as one classic said, there is no chaos in nature. So you were born just randomly, chaos caused it, from a pile of shit? Randomly just into a bit different world that u have expected right? IF I throw a brick onto your head, it’s not my fault, it’s evolution. Someone said The only evil on this planet is from the hands of humans. And the other one calls a man a smart animal. There is no difference how smart you think u are, you’re as smart as cockrouch in the eyes of a god. "Flies, for example, know nothing of science, nor evolution, nor the theory of chaos, nor the quantum mechanics, I observe, “but what of that?”

You have goals and new years resolution right? You gotta need plan. But let me warn you you may will not wake up next morning. I hope you aren’t one of those who sleeps for half and hour, then jumps up and keeps walking and walking about to see whether the evil people have not set fire to something, have not stolen something or were intending to kill ya?

who made god?
why did god allow evil to even exist?
why did god have such an imperfect design of the universe, and living things?
why are there scientific errors and contradictions in religious books?
why did the idea of a soul and a god come from pre historic times, essentially from people who didnt know much?
why is atheism more common among higher IQ people vs. lower IQ people?

Truck man

  1. Who made god?
    I think the question “May I grab God by balls” would be as well intelligent

  2. Why did god have such an imperfect design of the universe, and living things?
    I think it depends of view on things in general, everything has it’s beuty but not everyone is able to see it. Kindly consider the question: what would your good do if evil did not exist, and what would the earth look like if shadows disappeared from it? Everything will turn out right, the world is built on that.

  3. Why are there scientific errors and contradictions in religious books? Which ones? I didn’t read no religious book in a whole my life

  4. Why did the idea of a soul and a god come from pre historic times, essentially from people who didnt know much?
    I’m not sure we have advanced that much from those times. As one said - I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

  5. Why is atheism more common among higher IQ people vs. lower IQ people?
    I’m an atheist! And I thank God for it! Heard that phrase before?
    There are three classes of people: those who see, those who see when they
    are shown, those who do not see.

‘It’s high
time you swore by it, since it’s hanging by a hair, I can tell you.’
‘You don’t think it was you who hung it, Hegemon?’ the prisoner asked.
‘If so, you are very mistaken.’
Pilate gave a start and replied through his teeth:
‘I can cut that hair.’
`In that, too, you are mistaken,’ the prisoner retorted, smiling
brightly and shielding himself from the sun with his hand. ‘YOU must agree
that surely only he who hung it can cut the hair?’

To die of sunburn! Why refuse what is offered
by law! In what terms did he refuse it?’
‘He said,’ the guest answered, again closing his eyes, ‘that he was
grateful and laid no blame for the taking of his life.’
‘On whom?’ Pilate asked in a hollow voice.
That he did not say, Hegemon…’
‘Did he try to preach anything in the soldiers’ presence?’
‘No, Hegemon, he was not loquacious this time. The only thing he said
was that among human vices he considered cowardice one of the first.’

lol this would be an akward debate.

you’re not religious and dont believe in god?

All I know is that I know nuffing… How about you?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

well a wise person also would know what is more likely and what is less likely.

Who is that wise man? Is he gotta be recognised worldwide? Confucius? Da Vinci? Plato?
IF it were not them it would have been the other guys sooner or later with the other names there is nothing but idle chance."
Thats how I think

There are four, you mention the first three: masters (those who see), students (those who see when they are shown) and participants (those who do not see). The enlightened, the fourth, are in their last life or are in total spirit form.

Masters, students, participants and enlightened?
I didn’t give any brand names.

I have no particular passion for either policemen or butchers or
scientists or writers or the young. I consider brand-names and labels a prejudice. My holy of holies is the human body, health, intelligence, talent, inspiration, love, and absolute freedom, freedom from force and falseness in whatever form they express themselves. That’s the platform I’d subscribe to if I were a great artist."
Chekhov Anton Pavlovich

“Who made God”
If you are a subscriber to the “big-bang” theory and i’m not saying you are, then it is plossible to say that “God” (which god? the western greek image?) is the begining as in which is stated in the bible. Which is to say that he is the this mystical energy from which all springs forth from. And why is it that is easier to believe that there was some energy then a click and all began; over that “energy” being “God” created all?

“Why did God allow evil to even exist?”
Can be answered in this way but not the only answer of course. That for their to be “good” there has to be “evil” such as all the things in this existance that we know of, ying-yang, light-dark, blackholes-godmatter, etc. It could also going into somthing of the duality of man…of the universe.

“Why did God have such an imperfect design of the universe and living things?”
As stated previously by some one else that I think this comes to the point of which you are looking from or look for. Because as I’ve seen things tend to work in a harmony not quite describle by our wonderful science.

“Why are there scientific errors and contradictions in religous books?”
Well I must ask a question fo you then; why is there contradictions in science itself? But I must also answer your queston as best I can. First you must look at the way in which religions formed or how they are viewd by us the most “advanced” of all civilization of the decades. Many believe that these religous books are inspired not directly written by “God” So you have to take mans errors in to account when reading these things. Also lots of these contradictions you speak of are not contradictions at all, but often times are simply described differently or interepreted differently or are used to describe different aspects of the life/soul/ physical etc. And before you state that rediculous time-line given by the Catholics let me first tell you that no where in the bible is a time-line given of creation. So there for a day could be billions of years.

“Why did the idea of a soul and a god come from pre historic times, essentially from people who didnt know much?”
Maybe they were slightly more in touch with the spiritual side of existance? Maybe they came from a time when “God” was closer to man? As its stated in the bible and other religous text. And what gives you the right to say they dont know much? I bet they knew more of the world and its intamintacies then you or any of us.

“why is atheism more common among higher IQ people vs. lower IQ people?”
Simple put to the fact when these people of higher IQ are indroctrinated or illuminated whichever one you like they are well…indroctrinated. Plus I dont think you have this question right. I do not think its a question of high IQ but rather a question of “education”. Plus I think its so silly when people they are logically argueing that they are an athiest. Because in logic you cannot affirm something that is unknown, (look at the true meaning of atheism-greek roots).

Much love hope I did somthing of use lol.

You raise some very good points in that there are serious repurcussions depending on how we define people as being products of randomness versus the belief in free will. One of the key problems with how people choose to assign the importance of personal responsibility(free will) versus being products of randomness(How much, if any, blame should be placed on an individual) is that the absence of the belief in free will potentially leads to a decreased emphasis on individual rights and freedoms. (If you believe people should be treated as outcomes of randomness, then their choices and desires can easily be considered as less important.) Also, it would be boring and unhealthy to live life thinking of yourself as having little control over events. So, even if the amount of control one has is an overestimate, it is still probably a prefferable way to live. (Although it is a bit of a duality, one can of course acknowledge that they are outcomes of ‘chaos’ or randomness and still live their day to day lives from the viewpoint of having a large amount of control.)

But, both of those are questions about how individuals and societies define themselves, not about what is actually occurring. The larger point I was trying to make with my earlier posting is that people easily mistake random events for larger purposeful, ‘grand’ events. This admittedly doesn’t answer your question ‘Is there a God’ which is unknowable (but IMO doubtful, particularly in the way people usually think of God.) But just that things can occur without some great overseer or govenor micromanaging each and every event.

Good discussion from both you and Austin H. I understand that your opinions likely differ from mine and trackmans, but it’s nice to see that we can have a civil discussion about a topic that it is easy to become emotional and reactionary about.

Think about yourself Jstu3566
You’ve come on this planet Earth involuntarily and without invitation or your permisson, you weren’t choosing your parents. Up say to 5 years old you were completely goverened by your parents who protected you from different dangerous situations. Up say 15 y.o. you couldn’t have explained quite coherently whether you govern at all on your way or not as again your parents, if prudent, took care of your ass. Suddenly you decide you can govern something and try to build a plan for the better fate, success, secured future, career. You were being an alpha male a bit and ended up locked for 3 years. You thought once your time expires you will take it serious. But you suddenly die the 1’st day you walked out on freedom. Poker face president Barack Obama smashed that fly while being interviewed and the fly suddenly dead. It can happen with you any moment, in the night for example and the last words you would understand - can it be…No one can vouch he will wake up tomorrow, no one. What’s the point of Mike Tyson’s boxing skills when he sleeps? Actually I’m repeating myself and everything has been said in previous posts.
To think that you can govern something etc how interesting it is right?

And why mention any of this? Is your point that we might as well not even try to do anything? Is your point that our time and circumstances is partially governed by some huge metaphysical electromagnetic force that occupies the whole earth and everything within it like a cloud? Is your point that there is room for spirituall sentiments without having to be religious? Is your point that athletes - who more than anyone - who try to exercize their desire for self controll - may as well not bother?

What is the point of this discussion?

And just because a television set falls on some ones head from a third story window, it does not mean anything whatso-ever, other than that the guy was either not watching where he was walking, or was just plain unlucky.

When you know that you know nothing in the end it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be learning. Do what you want Goose323 but leave the rest to heaven. Spirituall sentiments without having to be religious? Waht the heck does that mean? There is a big Orthdox Church 100 meters (Bolt runs that dash in 9 58!) out of my house I haven’t been in there inside since it’s been built and opened like 7 years ago, though I see and hear everything what happens around. Why should I go in there, to have been called religious people? I know people who goes in church and are sinners second to none.
What you will hear after a television set lands on your empty head is you just not been watching where you was walking or unlucky bastard. And I repeat no television set will ever fall on anyone’s head just out of the blue. In this particular case, I assure you, you are not in danger of that at all. You will die a different death.